Braling II, did you forget the Lutefisk?

In St. Paul, Minnesota, over the years, they created an Ice Castle, built of ice blocks and usually quite elaborate with colored lights inside for night time viewing. They did that a couple of times in Spicer, Minnesota on Green Lake to a much smaller scale.

Braling II, have you ever froze your butt ice fishing over a hole cut into a frozen lake. There were a lot of crazy Minnesotans who would do that religiously each winter. We don't have that down here in Florida though.

Hey, Biplane, Nope, never ice-fished. I'm a Pacific Northwestern Scandihoovian, not a Mideastern one. And as for Lutefisk, it's really hard to find here in California. Believe me, if was anywhere within a mile radius of your nose, you could find it!

God Jul!

Good wishes to all on this board at this most celebratory of seasons. For millenia, our kind has been celebrating the resurrection of the SUN after its standstill at its lowest point in the sky on the shortest day and longest night of the year, at the Winter Solstice, usually on or about December 22. That is my birthday as well. The movement of the SUN back toward its highest point in the sky can be noticed by December 25, or three days after it has stood basically still, if detected on a wall of a cave, or some other such device for charting the SUN's motion. The newly revitalized Griffith Observatory in LA, has a very unique version of such a device, on which the location and motion of the SUN's progress can be charted from Winter Solstice to Summer Solstice and then back again. To our ancestors, this resurrection of the SUN was a sign that all would be right with the world soon, that the long, hard winter would change into spring and then into summer. If the SUN's spot on that wall ever ceased to move, it would mean the end of our kind, as all life would eventually be adversely affected by the lack of the SUN's energy and all living things would suffer or die. Thus, at this most important time of the year, we celebrate the renewal of life, the end of winter, and the source of the blessings of energy that warm the Earth in our neighborhood of the Galaxy, and from which all life originates, the SUN.

Ay, chap. On THIS side of our kind, it's been spelled SON!

Merry Christmas, to all.

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:
Good wishes to all on this board at this most celebratory of seasons.

Notice the similarities in Patrask's post between the Pagan holy day and the Christian holy day? Fascinating, isn't it?

The origin of this festivity is Mithraic and about 4000 years old. Mithra was the god of light in ancient Iran. The symbol of Mithra is Sun. The period of 17th to 24th of December was the duration of this feast. The 21st of December, which is the solstice of winter, is still celebrated in Iran. It is called “Yalda” and it represents the victory of light over darkness, which symbolizes the triumph of good over evil.

Romans adopted this festivity to celebrate the god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god during the winter solstice. The winter holiday became known as Saturnalia and began the week prior to December 25th. The festival was characterized by gift-giving, feasting, singing and the priests of Saturn called dendrophori, carried wreaths of evergreen boughs in procession.

Noting that days start becoming longer after the winter solstice, the ancients gave birth to the myth that the sun-god rises from his death after three days. This belief of the death and resurrection of god was later incorporated into Christianity.

Fascinating how cultures can effect each other over long periods of time.

Happy Christmas!

Your Nativity, Oh, Christ our God,
Dawned upon the world the Light of Knowledge;
For by it those who worshipped the stars
were taught by a star
to adore You the Sun of Righteousness;
and to know You the Dayspring from on high.
Oh Lord, Glory to You!

-Troparion of the Nativity

Blessings to believers, non-believers, doubters, confused, those who think they know; in short, as Tiny Tim says,
"God bless us - every one!"

There is endless speculation as to exactly when Jesus was born. Because of an ancient miscalculation of calendar datings, Jesus birth year is a few years off. Figuring in Herod's death at 4BC. and the order to slaughter children under 2 years old, that would probably put Jesus's birth somewheres around 6BC. Thus, Christ was likely born about 2001 years ago. Also, December is not Biblical, because it says shepherds were tending to their flocks at the time. And historically, the only months that was done, is between April and up to October.

As to the Kings visiting Christ in the stable, that is NOT in the Bible, but an invention. Read the passage closely and notice the visit took much later. It reads that at the time of the visit by the Kings, Christ was already a boy, and living in a house.

But in store windows and church displays, it looks so nice to see them all there at the birth, along with the shepherds, the sheep, and, who else is missing?

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
There is endless speculation as to exactly when Jesus was born.

What Mr Knox says is true. The best calculations of most serious scholars place it sometime in September. Rome simply replaced the Rebirth of the Sun with the Birth of Jesus to make the transition easier for everyone coming into the new religion from the old.

Just wait til Easter (Eostre) comes around - now there's another interesting story!

Speaking of the Winter Solstice, etc., in Homestead, Florida there is the Coral Castle, which has a Sun Dial that not only tells the time, but also the month and year, all carved out of coral. Visit the web site as it is quite interesting and to visit the castle is a must if you are in the area. Click on www.coralcastle.com.

quote:

But in store windows and church displays, it looks so nice to see them all there at the birth, along with the shepherds, the sheep, and, who else is missing?

The Bible says Joseph was of the House and lineage of David, but does not mention Mary. In order for Christ to be an actual descendant of David, Mary would also have to be descended from David. Likely Joseph and Mary were both from the same general tribe, and distantly related, so not only did Mary go to Bethlehem for the tax/census, but so did many of her relatives. She may have had a mother, sisters, cousins, etc., in attendance.

Interesting but many do not realize that the three kings were actually out to kill Jesus, sent out by Herod. The shining star was illuminating where Jesus was so that the three kings could kill him. But an intervention did not allow that to happen.

This falls into line with the timeline mentioned prior. However, throughout the years, tradition and misconceptions have changed the story from what really happened to what people think should have happened.

biplane1, whoa! I never even heard that one. Exactly where do you find that in scripture? When I read my text, it says that Herod had no idea what the three Kings were even looking for until he questioned them. Nowhere does it indicate they were on any killing trip. He later asked the wise men to find out about the whereabouts of this ruler and report back. Herod said that he also wanted to worship him. It is written that he would use the wise men to gain the knowledge of the whereabouts of Jesus in order to kill him. But the wise men weren't the wiser for any of this, so to speak. Read Matthew 2. And, later, it was God that warned them in a dream not to return to Herod. The three kings may never have known what Herod was really up to. Also, the way you put it, it sounds like an evil death-star instead of the star of Bethlehem.

So, please explain.

(*sigh*)

mega *sighs*

Methinks I misspoke. The three kings were not to be the death dealers but, just as you say, a means by which Herod could find out where he was located.