Hippo is a good word.

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
theoctobercountry~
THAT is why the country has fallen into the bloated condition. Liberal anti-god judges have thrown the kilter to the winds.

Well, I don't follow your logic at all there. The fact that we now have a strong centralist government has nothing to do with separation of church and state. I should not have followed one idea with the other in my previous post. I guess I was just making the point that the government continually evolves. The form of the US today is completely unlike that of the founders time; they envisioned more of a loose confederation of semi-independent states, rather than a country run by a strong central bureaucracy.

Sorry, I think it is very evident that there was always meant to be a clear separation of church and state in this country. Just look at all of the founders' other writings. I don't think most of the founders would even be recognised as being "Christian" according to the current definition of the term by today's far right conservative types. Heck, of those that weren't directly antagonistic to religion, many would be considered Deists. Oh, they may have had a belief in a God, but not the same God that is worshipped by fundamentalists today.

Again, why would anyone WANT a strong religious aspect to the government? What happens when the current rulers profess a different set of religious beliefs than your own? Heck, you'd just be out of luck.

(Oh, and if "God" is inscribed on courthouse walls all over the country, I would say that has more to do with the beliefs of those who paid the architects, than with anything the constitution has to say...)

quote:

Originally posted by theoctobercountry:
The form of the US today is completely unlike that of the founders time; they envisioned more of a loose confederation of semi-independent states, rather than a country run by a strong central bureaucracy.

Bullseye! Power to the states and the governors. Can you imagine how much better off we'd be with that today? State's rights, and less meddling by the federal government which already has a right hand much too large to know what its enormous left hand is doing!

The country is already so large that the only way to fix the problem is to dissolve it and reform smaller "countries" (states) such as New England, the South, the Midwest, the Pacific Northwest, Texas, California, etcetera. Make it more proportionate to European countries.

Wow - what a speech! The best at a DNC since Kennedy, they say. It was a masterpiece.

I think he answered every question still standing and them some.

He's going to be a very formidable opponent.

Oh, and remember to write in Ron Paul!

Coincidence, that just after I had written the responses above, the September issue of "The Lutheran" magazine arrived in the post, with the title article being "Beyond church-state separation wall." It wasn't exactly an in-depth article (but then, "The Lutheran" is not precisely an in-depth magazine), but it was interesting.

As for the application of the constitution to every day life, even back towards the founding of the country, John Adams wrote that "Constitutions work like clocks." Or, as the article puts it, "To function properly, they must swing back and forth, and their mechanisms and operators get wound up from time to time."

As a man who voted for Barry Goldwater in '64, I am truly energized, once again, this time for Barack Obama. I think he is the right man for the times. We need to return to the center, get off of the religious right's train wreck and return to the spirit of America embodied in the promises listed in the Declaration of Independence and return to Consistutional government before we go over the cliff of special interests. I have never been as proud to be an American as I am now, and Obama knocked that one out of the park for all Americans, of any racial background, sexual orientation, gender, or social standing. Nothing has been heard like this since the early days of the civil rights movement, which I supported from afar, much to my continuing embarrassment. Not this time. He is getting my vote, and support, and I think the country will be better off with him at the helm.

McCain's choice for VP, Governor Sarah Palin, will either eventually return common sense to those far left liberal junkies, or infuriate them to greater stupidity. Enough nonsense in twisting the constitution, rewriting the meaning of the Declaration of Independence and thinking every unGodly motive in one's life has no consequences in anyone else's lives. The last few words of Obama last night threw me and anyone who understands scripture. Those words from scripture that Barack Obama ended his speech had to do with holding on to the understanding of Jesus Christ and who he is, not about holding the country together. Brilliant speaker, nice guy, but misinformed, terribly, on certain matters of faith and life.

Palin is pro "constitutional amendment of a religious nature"

Thus, she's rather funny, actually.

Yeah, but she can hunt, skin, butcher, and dress a moose!

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
Yeah, but she can hunt, skin, butcher, and dress a moose!

She'd be a great forest ranger, but not a VP.

I've discovered, in spite of grade-school-era tales to the contrary, that the "founding fathers" often were not Christian. I haven't found out (though can make guesses) how the historical distortion that they were became the giant fairy tale it is now.

They came from a still-new national heritage of fleeing forced, established religion, and I think they still knew that freedom of religion includes freedom from religion.

Actually, there is this growing misconception regarding the faith of our fathers, to borrow a phrase. Given the Zeitgeist of our culture, would you expect to learn that all but two signers of the Declaration were Christians, those two being Deists who later converted? Of course not. We're more comfortable with salacious rumour, trashing reputation, emphasis on slave-holding, and whatever else encourages our without-guilt moral decline.
About a year and a half ago, I read "Christianity on Trial", which would benefit anyone interested in the Founding Fathers and the history of our country, especially regarding Christianity and slavery.
Of course, it is too well-researched and documented to be of much interest to many.

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
Actually, there is this growing misconception regarding the faith of our fathers, to borrow a phrase.

Correct.

http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html

"The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." written in the Treaty of Tripoli, ratified by the Senate in 1797.

If we, as citizens of this nation do not protect the rights of the minority, there will be no minority, and State sponsored religion will ensure that is the case. Keep The pursuit of Christ (Yahweh, Allah, The One, ...) in the hearts of the believers and in the houses of worship set up by those believers, but leave it totally out of the halls of government. Be kind to each other, and do not trespass on another's path.

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:
If we, as citizens of this nation do not protect the rights of the minority, there will be no minority, and State sponsored religion will ensure that is the case. Keep The pursuit of Christ (Yahweh, Allah, The One, ...) in the hearts of the believers and in the houses of worship set up by those believers, but leave it totally out of the halls of government. Be kind to each other, and do not trespass on another's path.

That just makes too much sense to happen!