Doug Spaulding, you could confuse a mouse as to what cheese is.

To make matters worse, the cheese would question itself after a few moments of discussing cheese religion with you.

But there are some on this board that can't be tricked by your seemingly endless wit and punch lines, tho you likely don't consider them tricks or punch lines. But what else can one call them when you advertise a God who doesn't seem to give two hoots about what takes place on this now God-forsaken planet you have imagined is buried in the archives of theological interpretation.

Your God, Mr. Spaulding, is one you created, and one I am sure you will go on defending until those farmer's cows come home.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
...your seemingly endless wit...

Wow - thanks for the compliment. I guess I still got it. Once at a former job, on my yearly evaluation, I was given high marks which in part referenced my "quick wit", thus contributing to office morale.

quote:

...a God who doesn't seem to give two hoots about what takes place...

It isn't that God doesn't give any hoots, it's more about free will.

By the way, I know very little about cheese religion. But here's a group you could join if you seek further enlightenment on the holiness of Swiss cheese.

Mr. Knox, sir,
It is common for those who do not know what they believe to badger those who do know what they believe; both in an effort to justify their indecision and unwillingness to commit, and also because there really is a thirst for Truth at the core of our being which, in the case of these provocateurs manifests as these attempts to undermine the beliefs of others until the Truth is more evident to them.

These are difficult questions and have plagued theologians for centuries. I'm always kind of amused and annoyed at attempts to pretend Christianity is about slogans. Many Christians want to live their lives by simplistic slogans and billboard or bumper sticker Christianity. Many of Christianity's enemies have oversimplified it's positions and declared it unmodern and anti-intellectual.

Absolutely God intervenes in human history. But also, absolutely God has given free will. What is the balance between God's sovereignty and man's free will?

Let's not belittle each other on these complex matters. I have read powerful arguments on both sides of these complex issues and am impressed with both sides. Both garner scripture (the same Bible) to support thier points of view. Both are issues wrestled with by some of the greatest minds (and most pious persons) in our history.

One thing Doug has repeatedly asserted is that the bottom line is love. I think this is CLEARLY supported by the Bible. Christ himself said that love is the fundamental and foundational issue, and that "God is love..."

By the way, Doug, just saw the picture of the foot and pregnant belly. What a powerful image! Do masses of tissue have distinguishable human feet? I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
Speaking of abortion, here's a nice photo I found.

It is a powerful statement. But ... is it real? I suspect some twittering here, using Photoshop or other to achieve the effect. Still, a powerful message. Since this woman is in the last thrimester, what is the issue?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Dark:
One thing Doug has repeatedly asserted is that the bottom line is love. I think this is CLEARLY supported by the Bible. Christ himself said that love is the fundamental and foundational issue, and that "God is love..."

By the way, Doug, just saw the picture of the foot and pregnant belly. What a powerful image! Do masses of tissue have distinguishable human feet? I don't think so.

Thank you for your kind words.

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:
Since this woman is in the last trimester, what is the issue?

No issue - I just like the photo.

A legitimate question. For me, the issue is that three months prior, it was still a person. The foot was not fully framed, but that is a matter or progression or degree--not personhood. An eighty year old is no more or less a person than a three year old. But we have somehow decided the issue based on geography. In the womb (except, as you note in the third trimester) "no rights"--outside the womb "rights" (unless you share Obama's view that if a "baby" survives an abortion attempt, and is alive outside the womb, the doctor should either kill it or allow it to die--at his and the mother's discretion, of course). In fairness, it may be that Obama no longer holds that view, but I've not seen him denounce it.

Here's a general sort of question, about which I have long been genuinely curious...

How is it possible to reconcile the very angry, blood-thirsty sort of God that appears in the Old Testament with the more loving God of the New Testament? The OT God says things like "Go and attack your enemies, kill the men and children, but feel free to keep the virgins for your own use." And then in the NT you have statements about loving your neighbour as yourself, and turning the other cheek, etc. How could both sets of statements possibly come from the same creator? Just curious as to how this is generally explained...

One rather simple one is the explanation Paul offered. The old law was a "schoolmaster" of sorts to prepare a people for a higher law--to be introduced in the life, suffering, example, death and resurrection of Christ. He became the one offering that would allow us to become transformed into new creatures. Hence, an old testament and a new testament.

Also, be careful not to over-characterize God in the OT as ONLY hateful. There are MANY passages of love, patience, mercy, forgiveness, etc. in the Old Testament. Be careful not to oversimplify your understanding of the Old Testament manifestation of God.

Of course, there are other explanations and one that are more detailed and interesting; but that is one.

theoctobercountry~

Your question demands a lengthy answer to do it justice, but I'll try to answer a portion of it in a couple paragraphs:

God never changes. He is love. But he is also a jealous God.

He is still all that he was in the Old Testament. And you do NOT want to meet Him if you appear before him 'naked'.

But God's wrath, and all the anger he has towards the sinner has been directed fully onto his Son, whom he had tortured and crucified so that we could escape thru the perfect life Christ lived. That is called the Great Exchange. Christ exchanges his perfect life for our imperfect life, and takes on the full brunt of his Father's anger that we should have experienced.

Those who do not "acquire" the character of Christ, that character that has within it all that eternal life embodies, all that perfection embodies, then we will stand "naked" without anything to ward off the fury of God. Within the sinner there is a condition that provokes such anger in God that he is willing to let his Son suffer on our behalf to free us from it's death grip.

I hope I helped you with at least part of your question.

quote:

Originally posted by theoctobercountry:
How is it possible to reconcile the very angry, blood-thirsty sort of God that appears in the Old Testament with the more loving God of the New Testament?

That's because it's two different gods.

I am not a subscriber to atonement theology.

Spaulding you are a plain old heretic. An obnoxious scripture twister. There is no other way to put it. Your mild mannered attitude fools not me or other Christians on this board. You are the proverbial fox in the proverbial henhouse. Get mad, I don't care. When someone starts knocking the redemptive power of Christ and starts jawing that there are two gods, and atonement of Christ is bunk, then you have put your own self into the total nonsense limelight.

This is the LIVE SERVICE from Rick Warren's Church in Lake Forrest, California. Rick visited Ray a few months back and I recently found out that in the hour plus that he spent with Ray, he asked him a number of questions, including man's place in the Universe, and recorded the interview. A fellow recently mentioned to me that likely you'll read Ray's answers to some of the questions posed, in an upcoming book by Rick Warren.

Live Service for 4 worship services on Nov 30th. Rick Warren does them all.


click on !~
http://saddlebackfamily.com/mediacenter/services/#


__________________________________________________

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
Spaulding you are a plain old heretic. An obnoxious scripture twister.

Wow. Mr Dark was just talking about the personal attacks on some of these threads.

quote:

Get mad, I don't care.

I'm not mad.

quote:

When someone starts jawing that there are two gods...

Actually, there are a lot more than two!