quote:

Originally posted by embroiderer:

The reason why we have the Ten Commandments, is because we learn that breaking any one of them we it hurts yourself and your fellow man and God.

Please, READ the Ten Commandments, carefully:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandments

The reason "WE" have the ten commandments is because the elder Males of the captured and transported Jewish people from Jerusalem, captive in Babylon in 575 BC, wrote them as a book for their people to take and follow and believe in and to see them through from 575 BC to today, but ritually studying and memorizing and pondering the words set down by those elders, so that their truth would not be forgotten against all intrusions and attempts to remove them from this Earth. So, why should I, who is not Jewish, follow this set of rules, when I do not need them, only The Golden Rule, to act in a livng and civilized manner toward all of my fellows, not just those who follow a set of rules?

This is scvered rather well in the movie, Religulous by Bill Maher. All religions claim the same thing, their rules are the right rules and all other rules are therefor bad.

Please, Study the Ten COmmandments and see if what I have written is not a little clearer after that.
Now which of these hurts me and my fellow man? God I get, He wrote them, and he was a very jealous God, wanting to protect His territory from other gods. So, that sets up the Chosen People to be the chosen people, not a unifying idea to say the least. You can have the Ten Commansments, just give me the Golden Rule. Tha is really all I need to govern my interactions with my fellow human beings. Ans, it allows for eachof us to follow their individual beliefs as to WHICH type of god they prefer. No absolutes here, just love.

How about a source that isn't wikipedia? Your chronology appears to be off.

Andy & Opie, together again!

And the Fonz.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
Also, Yeshua never said one word against homosexuality.

Also, you are such a sly fox, Mr. Spaulding.
Of course Yeshua never said one word against homosexuality, because that's a much more modern word. Back then the word for homosexuality was Sodomites, and dogs. And others.

Nothing said in scripture? Oh, but you know there is.

Here's a few for your recollection:

1st Kings, chapter 14, verse 24.
And there were sodomites (and prostitutes) in the land, perverted persons. They did all the same things, all the abominations of the nations which the Lord had cast out before the children of Isreal."

Romans 1, 26-28
God gave them up to vile passions. Even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. Thus, God eventually gave them over to a debased and broken mind, to do those things which are not fitting.

1st Corinthian 6, verse 9.
Do you not know that the unrighteous cannot inherit heaven? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor extortioners, nor drunkards, will be given heaven as an inheritance. It will be given to another.

Doug Spaulding,
Also, where you claim not to go against the nature, as being very damaging to your psyche, where did you ever find that?

It is supposed to be damaging to your psyche, so that you look to God! God makes it so for you to look for Him to be gifted with a relationship with God. If God did not lay these heavy crosses on your psyche and mind and soul, what reason would you have for looking to God? What reason to build a relationship as God peels away what ever is not from Him?

patrask.
You get your information about the Ten Commandments from Bill Maher? The guy that likes to frequently visit what Tony Curtis calls the den of Sodom and Gomorrah at the Hugh Hefner household? Oh, wow, what an authority on the Ten Commandments. Your other comments are equally silly to reply to.

Sometimes I feel like Nard is right - it's just not worth it anymore.

At his most recent lecture, Ray mentioned his good friend Mr Hefner, and he has been known to go round to visit him at Sodom & Gomorrah, as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
At his most recent lecture, Ray mentioned his good friend Mr Hefner, and he has been known to go round to visit him at Sodom & Gomorrah, as well.

Really?

A real clASS act: (in the true Shakespearan use of the word)
http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2008/01/bill_maher_deno.html

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
Really?

Yes.

quote:

Originally posted by embroiderer:


patrask.
You get your information about the Ten Commandments from Bill Maher? The guy that likes to frequently visit what Tony Curtis calls the den of Sodom and Gomorrah at the Hugh Hefner household? Oh, wow, what an authority on the Ten Commandments. Your other comments are equally silly to reply to.

Ok, let use another source:

http://www.answers.com/topic/babylonian-captivity

The point I was attempting make here is that the Assyrians first took the elders and the most learned of the Israelites to Babylon and they were then exposed to some other sources of information not until then available to them, such as the cuniform tablets that were in the library of Ashubanipal and were composed by the Summarians thousands of years before the Bible was written. From that information came such stories as the Flood and the Garden of Eden, known as E.Din in the Summarian version. If you want further information I would direct you to the works of Zachariah Sitchin, who has compiled a large work on the Summerians and their beliefs, using only academic sources for his references. Much of the Old Testatment comes from the Summarian sources, available to the Israelites when they were captured and transported to Babylon. When Cyrus the Great, as he is known, let the Israelites return to Jerusalem, they rebuilt the temple and then the Torah, the Old Testament to Christians, appeared on the scene, complete with the Ten Commandments, which pertain exclusivley to the Israelites and their God Jehovah, a very jealous god who proclaimed that the Israelites were to be his Chosen People.

It appears that all of history is written by the survivors of wars, captivities and other tresspasses by one group over another. Pealing away the part that is purposely added to justify the final result is a hard task.

For those who are comfortable in limited knowledge, be kind to others who have studied and searched for many years to find the Truth. Not all that shines is gold. Be happy in your security, your beliefs, but do not hurt others who might disagree with you because they have other information.

I say, apply the Golden Rule and we will all get along together. It is as if we all march on the Sabbath down the same street, but each turns in different direction at the corners where the houses of worship are located. Then, after renewing our faiths, we rejoin again into a unified people who have mutual respect for the rights of others to believe as they will, so that we are, in turn, given that same right by all. That is the real American Dream.

Down with hate, up with love. Believe what you must, leave others to believe what they will, as long as it hurts not you.

About that Califonia Prop 8:

For all you MAC owners out there in computer land, let's give a hand to Apple for taking the correct stand on Prop 8:

http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/10/24/apple.fights.prop.8/

Let's be realistic here. There will be a backlash by those who are so offended by the continued moral collapse of this country, and it will be the likes of which no one has ever seen. There is no other way to look at this. There is a multitude in this country that is being offended on all sides. Proposition telling us stop believing in a certain way and put aside all our personal moral beliefs and vote for Prop 8. What horrible nonsense is this?

Maybe it'll take two generations for the backlash. I don't know. But the good in the hearts of those who cannot bear the filth and offenses against human decency will sound louder than anything every heard on this planet.

God did not make man to simply mock his creator. And for God to do nothing.

Ok, I get it. You are right, the rest of us are just damned to your defintion of Hell and that is that. I will choose my own path, thank you. Rational thinking is not in the dictionary of your closed-minded beliefs. I am sure that you will be welcoming that Armageddon that is soon to occur and then you all can go up to heaven in the Rapture. I, for one, will be in better company.

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:


For those who are comfortable in limited knowledge, be kind to others who have studied and searched for many years to find the Truth. Not all that shines is gold. Be happy in your security, your beliefs, but do not hurt others who might disagree with you because they have other information.

Could you be any more condescending? I disagree with what Phil and Nard believe in many instances, but you treat them as children who've neglected to learn about the world around them. Christianity is not a security blanket for adults, never exceeding the merits of good moral advice and assurance of life after death.

quote:

Originally posted by Nico:
Christianity is not a security blanket for adults...

But Friend Nicholas, I fear it is very much a security blanket for far too many people.

Okay, I'm going to take the straight and narrow Christian approach. I get away from that unfortunately. Often caught up in the heated passion of the moment.

And so, according to Christ, I can't judge anyone here. To a lost world I can relate the words of Christ or the Holy Spirit from a heart cleaned by Christ, but I'm not to judge. Scripture forbids me to judge the lost, but I can judge the believer. Scripture is strong on judgment begins in the house of God.

So as for all the nonsense I hear coming out of the arena of Politics, or about the decadence I see coming from Hollywood, or the ramblings of an atheist, all that is what is actually expected. They are lost. No one can expect true eternal moral observations and a yielded heart for God coming from the unredeemed.

Certainly I was in that crowd during many years in my life. I wouldn't and didn't want anyone judging my motives. I was cool guy. I loved people. And when I went off the deep end, I didn't gnash my teeth at others with fiery anger or a murderous heart, but swung off into temper tantrums and then, when settled down, felt that I was okay and people were good and things would get better. I figured I could do better and earn points for heaven. In other words, I was truly lost. Why God would ever bother to save me is a mystery, but a mystery I welcome with awe.

So, I'll pipe down. If anyone is going to get saved on this board, it's God who does the saving. If any politician is truly going to be saved, Presidential or not, it's God who does the saving. Of the few verses from scripture that is thrown out like a life raft, maybe it'll spur one of the readers here to reconsider their state against a perfect God demanding perfection and nothing less.

Oh yeah, then there is someone who saves you from your inadequate self: a Saviour. For those who can't make that perfection grade required by a perfect God..