fjpalumbo: Thank you for that reply. I was very uplifting and a pleasure to read.

[This message has been edited by pabillsman1 (edited 09-08-2004).]

yes, I agree. just because I dont flip flop on every issue like one canidate for president, people view me as weak or wrong or old fashioned. I see standing up for what is right and what america was founded on as patriotic and my duty as an american, it makes me proud to see America some together under our leaders, not to divide us as people like translator try to do.

thank you for that post it felt good reading a post that made sense on this board for a change.

[This message has been edited by el stevieboy (edited 09-05-2004).]

quote:

Originally posted by el stevieboy:
[B]I love america and have served this country probably more than anyother person on this board. I love the freedoms I have here. I love being able to worship as I please without fear.
B]

good thing you aren't muslim...

;-)

I see you are back thormachine, and nothing productive to say at all again.

and to answer your post. I to am also glad im not muslim. I dont like worshiping false gods. I worship the one true God.

Cheers Thormachine.
Cheers, Translator

stevieboy......

Muslims DO worship the one true God; same as Jews and Christians. They just call him Allah and don't recognise Christ as the son of God, but as a good man and a prophet.

Korby: This is utter nonsense.

That's like saying... I'm talking to 'only' Korby, who is stevieboy and dandelion and groon and others as well.

I'm on my way to Philadelphia, which is New York and New Jersey. New York is where I'm really going, but I don't call it that. I'll wind-up in Toledo, Ohio.

"Wha..?!"

Korby, even though I hate religion, yours is at least of an accepting sort.
Nard, your stance is exaclty why we have religious wars.
Cheers, Translator

I don't know much about the faith of Islam, but I DO know that they claim to be descended from Abraham, the SAME Abraham in the Old Testament from whom the Jews also claim descent. So, in effect, both Christians and Muslims are basically offshoots of Judaism.
Translator, I'm not a very religious person, although I do believe in the basic tenets of Christianity. I believe in tolerance for others' beliefs because I think that understanding where other people come from is a big step in peaceful relations. I may not agree with others, but I respect their right to their beliefs. Live and let live, I say!

Translator:

What? We have religious wars because you can't find your way to New York?

Go ahead, Translator. Explain yourself! Don't dodge the issue. Tell me why you are going to Toledo instead and it doesn't matter!

Korby: If you are so tolerant of other's beliefs, then be tolerant of mine and answer me this: Why did Christ have to die on the cross, and Mohammed didn't have to? Why did Christ have to resurrect from the dead, and Mohammed didn't have to?

Nard,

Christ was mankind's savior, which is why he was crucified. He died for the sins of men in order to save our souls. Mohammed was a prophet, spreading the word of God. You can call Him God, Yahweh, or Allah....they're all referring to the same entity.

Nonsense again! Only God can forgive sins. Can Mohammed forgive sins?

"Behold, God is indeed much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace; and God knows all that you keep secret as well as all that you bring into the open."

The Quran.
The 16th Surah
vrs. 18-19.

Mohammed's claim is not that he forgives sin, but that God does.

When Christ was on the cross, his prayer was, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34)

Now, in reference to this board, the question is, what is the role of forgiveness and the atonement in Bradbury's thought? Does it apply? In The Fire Balloons, are the hovering sphere's just advanced creatures, or are they god(s)? When, in Bradbury's poetry, he refers to God, does he use the idea of god in a metaphorical sense? If so, to what does the metaphor point?

Nard,
I will not go into a discussion of this with you. Forgive me.
Korby,
live and let live. Well said.
Cheers, Translator

Mr. Dark,

Excellent point and excellent topic starter.

Of course, with Bradbury's love of metaphor, I think the first answer is that he uses the idea of God as a metaphor. But it's difficult to provide the answer to the question of to what the metaphor points to.

So let me take the fall back position that Bradbury doesn't use the idea of God as a metaphor at all. Let's say he actually believes in a Creator of the Universe. I think he's said somewhere that we must celebrate life because to do otherwise would be ungrateful. Well, if he said that, to Whom, or What, would we be ungrateful to?

So, to take a completely wishy-washy stand, I think the hovering spheres in The Fire Balloons can be either advanced creatures or gods of a sort. Either way, they're evidence of belief in higher things.

Best,

Pete