Doug Spaulding, what's with this swept under the rug stuff about? Whatta you have that is so unbelievable that all the churches thru history have swept it under the rug? That the giants were really fallen demons that married into the human race. That's not new.

quote:

Originally posted by libRArY:
...what's with this swept under the rug stuff about?

It's just that most Traditionalist churches would rather not dwell on certain matters which make them uncomfortable to discuss, such as stories which change folk's perception of who God is, and that's exactly what this story does, in a big way.

Further, I would say that the knowledge of this story not being new would be partially correct - for those who have sought out the knowledge. I assert that by far the majority of Christians are not aware of this, other than perhaps the term itself, or a very slight reference.

Besides, there's a lot more to it than 'giants who were fallen demons'.

patrask:

Phil, since you were in Genesis, thought you'd be interested in another profound complexity in scripture that's in Genesis.

Just watched a portion of 'Inherit the Wind' on Turner Classic Movies the other day, about the Scopes Trial, and the incident came up pertaining to Cain's wife. That's in: (Genesis, Chapter 4). That same issue was also brought up in Sagan's book, and later the movie, CONTACT. The question is: Adam and Eve had only 3 sons, Cain, Abel and Seth, how then did Cain suddenly find a wife? (Gen: 4, vs. 17).

The fellow who professed Christianity and was asked this question by the prosecutor (played by Spencer Tracy) in 'Inherit the Wind', couldn't come up with an answer. Carl Sagan, an atheist, probably brought this issue up in CONTACT to agitate the Christian mind-set a bit. (MY guess). And so such questions went unanswered. But there are probable answers, in scripture, not in between the lines, but in the lines and verses.

Give you an example:
How many children did Adam and Eve have? The Jewish historian Flavius Josephus (born 37 AD, died 100 AD) broke it down this way: probably 32 boys, 23 girls. How? Well, I don't know how he came up with that number, but an indication of many children, not just three, is found in Genesis 5, verse 3. It says Adam had other sons AND daughters.

That's just a tip of discussion, because you get into all sorts of further discussion pertaining to intermarrying between brothers and sisters, laws in Leviticus that later banned such practice, etc etc. Who, then, was Cain's wife? Likely a distant sister. Unfortunately, in both the Scopes Trial (Inherit the Wind) and Sagan's CONTACT, not even an 'attempt' is made to explain where Cain's wife came from.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:


The Orthodox, Roman, and Protestant churches hope you won't ask - it's the type of scripture they try to sweep under the rug.

I don't know about the Roman Catholics or Protestants (though I do know the favoured Protestant interpretation of the scripture in question), but your statement shows how little you know about the Orthodox!!!

Say, Biplane - just how is the orange crop doing anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
...just how is the orange crop doing anyway?

Don't know about South Florida, but we're doing well here. Went up to Ojai last weekend and picked two bags-full of sweet, strong-flavoured oranges from this little grove we know up in the mountains near town.

Had a glassful this morning. As Andy Griffith would say, "goooooood!"

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
...not even an 'attempt' is made to explain where Cain's wife came from.

You see, here is where it gets complicated.

Cain (Q'ayin) was the son of Eve by Enki-Samael; Cain's wife was Luluwa, the daughter of Lilith (according to the Talmud), heiress to the matriarchal Malku. She was pure-bred Anunnaki.

Cain's son Enoch's (Henokh) writings reveal much. Whilst this book does not form part of the Canon of Scripture for the mainstream Christian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture. Read it here.

This is all contained in Sumerian history, and pre-dates Genesis by millennia.

If it were translated correctly, the first chapter of Genesis would say: "In the beginning the Gods (Elohim) created..." The Hebrew word ‘Elohim’ is plural. This error has let to countless misunderstandings.

The Anunnaki provide the link between the gods of Sumer and the Old Testament narrative. In fact, the Grand Assembly of the Anunnaki (later called the Court of the Elohim) is actually mentioned in the Old Testament's Psalm 82, wherein Jehovah makes his bid for supreme power over the other gods. That Psalm states "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment." He then berates the council for unjust actions and threatens them with death.

We're only scratching the surface here. A proper study of pre-Genesis history can takes years - I have taken several myself so far, and there's so much more to go.

Doug Spaulding, I have some advice: Don't give up your day job.

And whatever you do, DO NOT go into teaching religion. Or we will have people jumping off the white cliffs of dover before and after your class.

What you are talking about is pure crazy. What in the world are you talking about Anunnaki for? It has absolutely NOTHING to do with scripture. It's mythology. Right straight out of Babylonian myths. And as you said, "We're only scratching the surface here."

...
..... I do not think it's possible to come to actually 'know' the living person of Jesus Christ by going thru all the info that Doug Spaulding, tho likely with sincere intentions, is displaying.
..... Everyone nowadays seems to publish a new work on inspired declarations of God. Thomas Jefferson didn't have a glink of idea of what was to come when he published his 'Jefferson Bible'. Doug Spaulding dips into the Second (and Lost) Book of Adam and Eve to come up with Luluwa, supposedly the twin sister of Cain. Is one to dive in and out of mythology, and flights of fiction and flights of fact flown into ethereal atmospheres until finding themselves somewhere between binder and glue factory?
..... When you sit down, and begin to read the first..the very first chapter of the book, say of Ephesians, it settles the reader to begin to understand the love of God, and not the love of a writer in love with a whole litany of useless information that manages to ultimately give the reader a ...big headache !
.....

Yeah, Phil, lots of desperation out there. By that I mean attempts to avoid the simple truth that we are sinners in need of salvation and that the Way has been fairly clearly and fairly simply preached for about 2000 years.
Many real scholars (Godfrey Higgins and his "Anacalypsis" comes to mind) have worked very hard to convince themselves and others otherwise; only to, in the end, fall at the feet of Him Who is Lord of all - both those of vast inquiring intellect and the uneducated, simple, but good-hearted peasants. In heaven, St. Seraphim of Sarov stands side by side with the most humble God-fearing Mujik.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
The story of the Nephilim is fascinating! I could comment at length on it having studied it profusely, but few here would believe me, I fear, so why bother?

What did I tell you? Am I a seer of the future!?

By the way, going back up to Ojai Saturday to pick some more oranges. I find God in the oranges, somehow.

Come on, Doug. Exactly how is one to come to know Christ by all this "stuff" thrown in one's path? It's not that anyone is afraid or won't believe you, but what has this to do with the simple plan of salvation?
You have made it into a complicated and complex plan of palpitations.

"Ojai-o, Silver!"

(Sorry. That's how my mind works. I've got the Pun Gene.)

As long as I'm digressing, my favourite Spanish name in California is that of a small place near Big Sur: Salsipuedes.

I'll let y'all look it up...

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
...not even an 'attempt' is made to explain where Cain's wife came from.

You see, here is where it gets complicated.

Cain (Q'ayin) was the son of Eve by Enki-Samael; Cain's wife was Luluwa, the daughter of Lilith (according to the Talmud), heiress to the matriarchal Malku. She was pure-bred Anunnaki.

Cain's son Enoch's (Henokh) writings reveal much. Whilst this book does not form part of the Canon of Scripture for the mainstream Christian Churches, various groups, including the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, regard parts or all of 1 Enoch to be inspired Scripture. Read it here.

This is all contained in Sumerian history, and pre-dates Genesis by millennia.

If it were translated correctly, the first chapter of Genesis would say: "In the beginning the Gods (Elohim) created..." The Hebrew word ‘Elohim’ is plural. This error has let to countless misunderstandings.

The Anunnaki provide the link between the gods of Sumer and the Old Testament narrative. In fact, the Grand Assembly of the Anunnaki (later called the Court of the Elohim) is actually mentioned in the Old Testament's Psalm 82, wherein Jehovah makes his bid for supreme power over the other gods. That Psalm states "God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment." He then berates the council for unjust actions and threatens them with death.

We're only scratching the surface here. A proper study of pre-Genesis history can takes years - I have taken several myself so far, and there's so much more to go.

I am a follower of Zacharia Sitchin and have read all of his books, which I found to contain profound interpretations of the Summarian texts, that were incorporated into the Hebrew Torah during the capture time in Babylon, when it was written down for the Jewish people. Much of what both the Old Testatment and the New Testatment contain is wrong and adapted from much older sources. I would highly recommend reading Gerald Massey's Egypt The Light of the World. A more recent book that is very readable is Christianity An Ancient Egyptian Religion by Ahmed Osman.

I continue to search for the truth.

Always searching, always looking, but never coming to the truth.

That's an old Bible verse. When you don't know the Lord, always looking, always searching never coming to know the truth is what prevails.