"A hug a day keeps the shrink away."

Mitt Romney made a speech concerning his Mormon religious beliefs earlier today, commenting that he believed in the Bible, Jesus, etc etc. Oh, I Wish someone was there to ask him questions like:

1) Do you adhere to the Mormon belief that Jesus was a polygamist?

2) Do you adhere to the Mormon belief that the brother of Jesus was Lucifer?

3) What was that planet, again, Mr. Romney, that Jesus was from? (Mormon belief is that Jesus and Lucifer come from some danged-named planet that I forget! Would be nice of Mitt to recall that planet's name again!) Gee, Governor, exactly what Bible are you using anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
Gee, Governor, exactly what Bible are you using anyway?

They use the Bible, but they primarily use the Book of Mormon, amongst others.

Check this out, http://www.exmormon.org/ but don't say I sent you there.

Of the many anecdotes related on the message board, one of the most interesting was of a man who told his friend, "I have enough evidence in my office now to make you quit the church today if you saw it." His friend answered, "I can't afford to look; I have too much invested in this church." Notice he didn't say he was heretical, wrong, or even mistaken, but that he COULD NOT AFFORD TO KNOW THE TRUTH. Just plain scary!

Here's a tidbit from that site I can't resist sharing: http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon034.htm

The thing that irks me about the Romney news is that it seems we must only be concerned about a politician's religious beliefs if he is a Republican!

Braling II, Leiberman was thrown around the block for awhile because he is of the Jewish faith, and he is a Democrat.

Broid, you're correct, of course; and JFK had to endure some negative press because he was a Catholic.
But today's Zeitgeist is different, and what I wrote above still goes.

IsaidChristmas.jpg (54 Kb, 4 downloads)

Right on, Pard!

We had the "Christmas Concert" at my sons' school last night. Held in the church, even organ/choir loft was packed. Pre-k thru 6th, moving, funny, nostalgic, family and faith centered. A real community event for all ages!

Next week, my older guy has to do another with his music class he takes at the public school. "Winter Concert!"

...and then: God Bless all those who still are with us from December 7, 1941. Pearl Harbor Day!

Often I try to find circumstances or situations that give a little picture of hard to define scriptural passages. Take, for instance, Free Will!

Meaning of Free Will is argued frequently. Scripture appears to denote that everything has already happened, that our destinies are already pre-determined. (See 1st Chapter of Ephesians 1). If so, then the question is where does free will come in? For scripture does stress the need to exercise our free will, for instance, to flee evil.

So... this bit of an example. If anything, maybe a tiny glimpse into making you think a slightly different angle on this subject...

On the TV program "The Price is Right" this morning, a fellow was on a game segment where he was to buy grocery-store items that totaled $20 -21 dollars. He could take any number of a particular product, say, a number of cans of soup, or candy bars, or whatever, and added together, close in or get within the $20-21 dollar amount. So this fellow had already selected an item, and a number of that item added together came to $10 dollars and some cents. He was short, so he added an additional 10 cans of Campbell's Cream and Mushroom soup. It added to approx. $19.00, I recall. All he actually needed to do was to have bought eleven cans of soup instead of 10 cans...and that would have brought him into the $20 dollar range. And he would have won a $15,000.00 Luxury train trip.

Here he is watching the program (along with millions of others)...and he's likely screaming at himself to buy that one more can of soup as he is watching himself bid on the Campbell soups. And of course, he doesn't buy 11 cans, he buys.. ten cans.

So now, the poor chap screaming out to himself to buy one more can of soup....did that change anything? Of course, it's on film. Nothing can change. Logically, it makes no sense to try to change something like this. But here we have free will confronting free will. The man in the film had the free will to choose. The man watching the television has the free will to scream at himself on TV. In fact, he almost feels like he could change the fellow's mind on TV, if only...

In scripture, it says that God dwells outside of time. So look at the above as if it is all happening at once. The man bidding for the $20 - 21 dollar range, and the man screaming at the TV. Both have free will, but one is already pre-determined.

If anything, I'm attempting to scratch a little 'blip' of on the very large surface of looking at the meaning of Freewill vs. Pre-determination.

fjp451:
Okay, I'll bite!! (ouch!)

Are you saying any venturing into plumetting depths of God (thru God's Spirit) is balancing on the definition of discerning between good and evil?

Free will is what makes us like God (i.e. made in His image and likeness.) Try looking at "predestined" within the context in which it occurs, as "according to the Original Plan".
Christ's death wasn't the result of bad people killing Him. He willed it.

(If you want to really get into it, read St. Maximos The Confessor, St. Athanasius, and the decisions against the Monothelites at the Sixth Ecumenical Council.)

So the lesson learned here would be to not watch The Price is Right.

But seriously, I have had the same feeling when watching a Tivo of a football game which was actually played a few hours ago!

Spooky.

Braling II: I know Christ said...destroy this temple and I will rebuild it in 3 days...(referring to his body)...

...but it was His Father who decided that his Son would be murdered. Christ did say I only do the things that please my Father.

_________

Mitt Romney made a speech concerning his Mormon religious beliefs earlier today, commenting that he believed in the Bible, Jesus, etc etc. Oh, I Wish someone was there to ask him questions like:

1) Do you adhere to the Mormon belief that Jesus was a polygamist?

2) Do you adhere to the Mormon belief that the brother of Jesus was Lucifer?

3) What was that planet, again, Mr. Romney, that Jesus was from? (Mormon belief is that Jesus and Lucifer come from some danged-named planet that I forget! Would be nice of Mitt to recall that planet's name again!) Gee, Governor, exactly what Bible are you using anyway?

Response: Be careful when you assert what mormons believe. Do all mormons believe Jesus was a polygamist, for example? I know MANY mormons (including my own traditions) and I don't know a single one who believes that.

In many cases, these quotes are taken out of context, out of history, and have nothing to do with what mormons believe today. The question isn't, "what did some early pioneer say in Missouri?" the question is, what are the orthodox positions of mormons today.

Heaven knows you can go through the history of Christianity and find sects with bizarre beliefs and pull quotes from them till the sun goes down, and not get at a microscopic point of truth.

Additionally, much of what differentiates mormonism from orthodox christianity stems from what occured at the Nicene Council. The orthodoxy claimed by Christianity today was arguably not in place--and certainly not orthodoxy--until about 325 AD in the rulings of the Nicene Council.

One of the fascinating things to come of the gnostic discoveries are the many alternate views of Christ defined in the various gnostic gospels.

So I think it is not that productive to look at other faiths and turn them into "the other". If a mormon says he believes in Christ and the Bible, I say, more power to them. If a Baptist and a Lutheran disagree, who's right? If a Catholic and a Presbyterian disagree, who's right?

All texts--biblical or not--have to be interpreted in order to be understood. Why does one group get to say their interpretation is the only valid one?