Translator: You have a lot of gall to come in here and bash the United States when you live in Canada.

WHAT HAS CANADA EVER CONTRIBUTED TO THE WORLD?

NOT A DAMN THING. And you criticize America. I have tried to make my point clear but you just lack the intelligence to understand. I point out that all people have suffered and you reply to my heritage with "boo-hoo." I don't want reparations idiot. I am pointing out that to single out one group to give reparations to is ridiculous.

Of course you use the weak old argument of abortion in the case of rape or incest. That is a crutch used by all pro abortionists to justify abortion for unwanted pregnancies by women who could not keep their legs crossed. Its old, and tired.

You say I believe in changing the past. WRONG Moron! Once again for your limited mentality, it is people like you with revisionism that try to do that. No you cannot change the physical occurances of the past, but if books change everything from fact to fantasy, and remove the truth, it changes for future generations.

Keep you stinking red, communistic, atheist view to yourself. You don't live here in the greatest country called the U.S.A. so stay in your unimportant useless country.

[This message has been edited by pabillsman (edited 08-08-2004).]

[This message has been edited by pabillsman (edited 08-08-2004).]

Korby,
either you are so lazy that you accept America - that is, you think that staying in America and paying the blacks is an ok price for staying lazy, or you think exactly the opposite - that is, you figure that foregoing your laziness is small price to pay to leave this dreadful country which will make you pay the blacks. Since you ended up staying in the US, you must have figured out that it was still worth it to stay in the US, despite the payments to blacks (that is, the benefits you recieve from being AMerican are bigger than the benefits you would get from being lazy elsewhere (in another country)).
So, if you agree with the fundamental premise that by being a citizen of a country one must partake in both the good things as well as the bad things, you should also pay up. As you've said nothing about your actual willingness (or lack thereof) of paying the blacks, I am not able to finish this post in a partisan mode (ie, should I chide you for your lack of compassion, or applaud your good heart?).

Mr Dark,
I'm glad some people here understand me. I agree that it would appear that the payments and repayments will regress ad infinitum - but in reality they won't. There is only enough solid evidence for a limited number of translactions to take place, an the rest of the "claims" will have to be passed by. The crimes of US slavery happened recently, and there is plenty of docmentation about it. If past wrongs are to get righted, the size and dauntness of the task should not be taken into account.
Why do you not agree with the moral idea of the whole premise? Please explain.
The reason why Canadians are soemtimes seen as anti-american is manyfold. One - we like to be different (Canadaian Identity). Two - we learn from your misakes, and take pleasure in pointing them out to you. Notice the Vietnam War, this current war, or the stance on Cuba. The whole world is laughing at you, America, and we the hardest. We are usually less tempered then you are, hence we daly a bit longer with the actions. Once we find out which way the reed bows, we jump on the arched side and ride it to moral superiority. So yes, we are vain little creatures, but we have good reason to be so. We simply haven't made nearly the number of international and doemstic mstakes as you have (a good explenation for that is that the US is a world leader economically and militailry, while we are not. So perhaps you guys are at a disadvantage from the oneset (leaders who move slowly soon cease to be leaders). But then again, bad leaders also cease to be leaders. Draw your own conclusions here, if you can (I can't)).
By the way, thanks for recognizing our artists here in canada. We have so many more, but why brag? Though, to be sure, you guys have a ton more (larger population).
Anyway, check out Laurence, Davies, Richler, Bok, Moodie, Roy, Hebert, Theriaux...each land is replete with good writers, and the above are some of Canada's best. And that's only literature.
I hope you end up teaching in Canada; apply here sometime - you'll like it more than you think. Bellville is some 1,5 hours away from TO. Great little city; been there only once, but liked it.

Cheers, Translator

Translator: You have a lot of gall to come in here and bash the United States when you live in Canada.
----I don't go in there, I bash it from here. Also, I don't have to have any gall; in fact, all I need is a bit of common sense.

WHAT HAS CANADA EVER CONTRIBUTED TO THE WORLD?
----Plenty.

NOT A DAMN THING.
----Oh man, are you human? Like of flesh and blood? I had better conversation with AI bots on the web, and trust me, they were very dumb.

And you criticize America.
----Canada not contributing a damn thing to the world has nothing to do with me as an individual critisizing the US. Even the Bots would understand that.

I have tried to make my point clear but you just lack the intelligence to understand.
----gee, can I borrow some of yours? I mean, your posts are just overflowing with it.

I point out that all people have suffered and you reply to my heritage with "boo-hoo."
----yes, but I had a point, which you forgot to mention. Some people have suffered and it's impossible to give them reperations, and some have suffered and it's possible. You can't see that with your brilliant intelligence?

I don't want reparations idiot. I am pointing out that to single out one group to give reparations to is ridiculous.
---if you don't want reperations, don't imply that you do want them (as you did in your last post). It is not ridiculous to single out a group if that group is victimized.

Of course you use the weak old argument of abortion in the case of rape or incest. That is a crutch used by all pro abortionists to justify abortion for unwanted pregnancies by women who could not keep their legs crossed. Its old, and tired.
---but true and valid. If something is old and tired, it's useless, right? So that's how you think of, say, Bradbury? 2) Why would you extrapolate that to every woman who has an abortion? Have I? Why do you say I have? What made you believe I would? Answer, oh Teacher Pabillisman.

You say I believe in changing the past. WRONG Moron! Once again for your limited mentality, it is people like you with revisionism that try to do that. No you cannot change the physical occurances of the past, but if books change everything from fact to fantasy, and remove the truth, it changes for future generations.
----Oh, so whatever was written in the past in books is by necessity true, eh? (Someone please tell me that this guy is a joke; he can'tbe for real, can he?).

Keep you stinking red, communistic, atheist view to yourself. You don't live here in the greatest country called the U.S.A. so stay in your unimportant useless country.
----Sir yes Sir!

Screw You, Pabillisman, you're a disgrace not only to the US, but to the world at large. I hope you choke on a pretzel and your cat pees on you.

Cheers, Translator

Ooph, screw me! Harsh words, Translator!
Let's compare:

You: liberal, communist, atheist, reparation supporter, history revisionist, feminazi, Jesus basher, pro-abortionist, U.S.A. bashing, person in denial about Canada being at all important in the world, freedom hater

Me: moderate, Catholic, pro-life, proud supporter of the U.S.A. and freedom.


I'm proud of who I am!!!!!!

And I don't have a cat, and I prefer potato chips but it is interesting that you wish that I should die. Didn't you say you supported peace and brotherhood somewhere along the line? I guess not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Translator,

No, I don't think it's right to give reparations to blacks; the Native Americans, on the other hand, are a different story. You'd have to go further back than the US for reparations because a lot of slaves were captured by OTHER black tribes in Africa and SOLD by them to slave traders. So, if you want to get REALLY technical, then they should be getting reparations from Africa, not me, whose ancestors weren't even HERE until the 1900s....well AFTER slavery was abolished.

the true translator shows himself!!! lol wishing dead on poor pabillsman...I guess he just cant handle the truth pabillsman....

Have these boards always been like this? Hateful invective spewed at each other? This thread seems to have been created just to bait the kind of nastiness that is on it. pabillsman, is it strictly necessary to slap a label on Translator just because he/she disagrees with you?

I just got of the Army Reserves at the end of February. I've been in and out of the Army for the last 21 years. Does that make me pro-American? I'm pro-choice. Does that make me a Communist? I'm married to a wonderful woman, pay my taxes, I go to work every morning, and walk the dog every night. How do you label that? My parents were white sharecroppers in Mississippi and never got a single thing they didn't work for. They thought black folks should've gotten that 40 acres and that mule. What does that make them? Got a label for them too? These boards are all the same. I always think they're a place for people to come together to talk about the things that are common to us. Instead, they always turn out like this: nasty and vicious. And to think you're a teacher. God help us.

I'm also disappointed by the nasty things being about RB. Sure, he said some silly things, probably in the heat of the moment, but it's not deserving of the attention it's getting here on the boards and in the media. It's really much ado about nothing. Some reporter asked Mr. B his opinion, he gave it, end of story. Even I got a bit carried away in the heat of the moment and whined about it but the feeling passed.

Maybe I'm all wrong and this the perfect forum for hashing out these political disagreements. If so, I'll butt out. But I can't help but think that there has to be a better time, a better place, and a better way.

This board has NOT always been like this. We old timers (well, speaking for myself, anyway) longingly look back on the days where these boards WERE about Bradbury. The boards significanly declined when all the Michael Moore disciples flooded the place with their (unfounded and often uninformed) attacks on Bradbury. Many of us were offended and responded (sometimes in kind). There seems to have been a recent development where extremists on both sides of the political spectrum have kind of seen this as a place to spew juvenile hatred and name-calling. I hope it all settles down in time.

Translator: Would you be willing to post the names of current/recent Canadian authors you view as significant? I guest lectured in an English class at the local HS on some Canadian authors, and went over Margaret Atwood, Alice Munroe and Robertson Davies. I think the teacher liked it more than some of the students, but I am impressed with your literature. I'm not familiar with a lot of your writers, though; and would appreciate a list of authors you find important (if they're interesting and fun to read, all the better!).

redjellydonut

As the moderator here, I've deliberately employed a light touch, but fully admit that things have gotten WAY out of hand and I totally see how any newcomer could not help but be horrified. From the first, I've made it a point to remove the following:

--Any actually offensive language. (I've deleted swearwords, but probably missed some, and, sad to say, let stand some namecalling. When there got to be too much of it to edit each individual instance, I posted a reminder not to call names, to which no one responded.)
--Any non-allowed items such as off-topic spam or advertising.
--Any attacks on Ray Bradbury, period. Criticism (sometimes valid, sometimes harsh) of aspects of his work or viewpoints has been let to stand as this is not a "censor-run board," but any outright examples of slander are immediately and permanently removed. Also, anything which is not an attack on Bradbury but is too much a personal, privacy violation, is removed or altered.
--Double posts or other things of no redeeming social value.

Sometimes certain members thought certain items should be removed. I thank them for pointing out a few I may have overlooked, or did see but was unsure as to the concensus on editing them, but sometimes things they considered frivolous but I considered harmless were left. On at least two occasions, threads went wild way faster than I could read them, and I had to post apologies for any editing I may have neglected to do on those.

I don't know what to make of the combative turn the board has taken in only the last two months, except to say, when a war is on, it is apt to erupt into total war fought on many fronts. Also, rudeness and lack of respect are rampant in probably every English-speaking society nowadays, and Americans are said to be the worst offenders. (Last I checked, rules of civility were different in the South, than in the North, and if you'd care to enlighten us as to whether this is still the case, it might prove of some cultural interest. Although I could relate my Indiana cousin's Mississippi reception--but I digress.)

A note to EVERYONE who cares to consider it: please, Please, don't judge ANY celebrity by their fans! Anyone to come and read a lot of this stuff would think Ray Bradbury is a cantankerous old grouch who collects surly and argumentative fans with attitudes. From personal experience, I can attest this is FAR from the case, but just please consider the impression all this gives to anyone who may peruse the site! It is an experience not for the faint of heart!

Dandelion,
Ypu're doing a great job - one that should be a lot more fun, I feel. This medium of conversation does allow for rudeness and inconsideration that wouldn't exist in a face-to-face discussion. (Compare sniping with hand-to-hand combat.)
Keep up the good work.

I too have been saddened and sickened by what has been happening on this board over the last several months. The nastiness and ugliness, the name calling and foul language, the political ranting, most of it unrelated to Ray Bradbury...it has all been very hard to stomach. It is made even worse knowing that many youngsters come to this site to do research for school assignments.

I once again urge all of those who come to this site because of their admiration for, or interest in, Ray Bradbury and his writing to ignore these ugly posts. If you do, the posters will get bored and go away. When you respond to them, it only encourages additional posts of the same ilk.

Yes, and school is back in session in less than a month!

Dandelion rocks!

Pardon for the occasional harsh word or two. When I'm faced with ignorance personified, I sometimes let my nerves run wild (though I controled myself - you all should have seen the uncut and uncesored version of my post (the one in my unintelligent, communist mind...)).
Dandelion,
we had a bit of a fallout ourselves, I think, but that shouldn't stop me from congratulating you on a fine job. You're doing well, keep it up.
Pabillisman, you are a *%%#%$#$%!. I refuse to talk to you from now on. You've shown yourself to be a %$$##%, and a %&&(*(&(which is not to say that you're not as well a *&%&&$*&%*; those two are not mutually exclusive). Talking to you was not a pleasure I wish upon anyone.

Mr Dark (and Dandelion), sorry to put you both in the same post as that punk. You guys deserve better.

Mr Dark,
the follwing link gives a good list of the most classical Canadian authors. For more off-beat authors, ask me again (ie, Anthony Metivier (aka AEM - a good friend of mine), Christian Bok (another one), Jay Mercier, etc. Keep on readin'; it's the only medicine against ignorance (my trademarked quotation).

Cheers, Translator

By the way, Korby,
a fine argument - but it falls flat on its face. The blacks who captured other blacks were uneducated and did their deeds for petty gains. Furthermore, they nearly all died later on in the various African wars, and those who didn't probably have nothing to eat right now. So you can't hold them finacially responsible (morally perhaps - but who were the slaves destined to? Who paid for the captures? White men. They are more responsible than the other black folks who were just tools).
Cheers, Translator