quote:

It appears that Darwin's theory of evolution has been poo-pooed for some time now, not by pro-life people, but by the evolutionists themselves.

"Pro-life people"? I think you have the wrong group. Pro-life means anti-abortion. Maybe you mean the "intelligent design people" or the "creationist" people.

Well, the groups are nearly synonimous, or at least, inclusive of each other. Most of the pro-lifers are creationists, although not all creationists are pro-lifers. It's pretty hard to support a 'fetus's' right to life without a corresponding belief in a soul, which of course entails a belief in God or a higher power, which, as such, is generall seen as incompatible with Darwinism.

Walloon:

No, I did mean pro-lifers, who, for the most part, are intelligent design people. Mycrofthomes is correct!

Because "everything" is so transient, not just human length of life, but unthinkable numbers of stars and planets that collide all the time in the depths of outer space; does the idea of sending humans to other planets to sustain the human species so man will live forever seem a bit...unrealistic?!

In order to be comfortable with the idea of mankind living forever in the stars, you MUST ...MUST absolutely ignore thousands of years of Judea-Christian thinking of, at least, Western man. That there is a Creator, that man is the 'creation', and that ALL is fundamentally broken, someday to be all destroyed, MUST be either set aside or altered in such a way as to be made compatable with humankind wishing to go on some long long journey of foreverness.

The fact that we are all going to die makes, in itself, absolutely no sense! What in the world is the purpose to get up every day to go on such need of striving after journies of excellence or betterment, if only to give something to a later generation. If that later generation does the same thing, and that later later one as well, and then the whole kit-and-kaboodle should be disintegrated with the known universe, what in the span of man's thinking is the reason behind it all?

Face it! It doesn't make sense if it all is for some temporal, wisp of the 'moment. Take away something that man is inherently bred with...the sense of a soul that exists beyond death, of a God, of immortality of man beyond this life, and you are left only with the grand desire and grander need to furnish extending generations a 'Hawking/Bradbury ladder' to other stars and a preceived eternal home in the, really, only transient stars!

...additional...

...Braling II's comment about MELIORISM is noteworthy. Goggle the word.

Please let me put in my two cents. Judeo-Christian conscience was a vital part of this country. I would say that if mankind wished to travel into space, it would be necessary to keep the same frame of reference. Tho the scope and landscape is utterly different, the basics are really the same. Ocean's utter end! The unknown of far space!

I found this website interesting in that this new country was being founded by fundamentally God fearing people. A new civilization on some other planet? Is the same God found amongst the distant stars? If not, then he is no God!

http://www.interviewwithgod.com/patriotic/highband.htm

[I could not locate a lower band width. Hope it works on your computers.]

Very good. Kind of saddening, though, for two reasons: how Godless our society has become; and how articulate people USED to be!

Nard:

Ever read "Out of the Silent Planet"? Some interesting thoughts on that line...

libRArY:

A God who is only God on earth is no God, but the does the fact that someone carries the same God with them when they colonise another planet ensure the colony's survival? I wish I could say "yes"... After all, isn't part of man's purpose to ensure man's survival-- but at what cost? I guess the only thing you can't sacrifice for mankind's survival would be mankind's soul. (This makes sense, if you accept the idea of a soul: As such, a soul is the only thing worth more than life.)

I love the whole trilogy. "That Hideous Strength" is especially powerful. Maybe I'll dig them out again. It's been years.
Ever read "Mere Christianity" or "Miracles"?

On CS Lewis becoming a Christian: One evening in September, Lewis had a long talk on Christianity with J.R.R. Tolkien (a devout Roman Catholic) and Hugo Dyson. (The summary of that discussion is recounted for Arthur Greeves in They Stand Together.) That evening's discussion was important in bringing about the following day's event that Lewis recorded in Surprised by Joy: "When we [Warnie and Jack] set out [by motorcycle to the Whipsnade Zoo] I did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did."

I too read his trilogy many years ago. It was a "one book right after the other" experience. Really fantastic tales and images. An intense spiritual tone runs throughout the writing. The conflicts were, as I recall, startling at times.

Growing up in small, immigrant-settled town, I had Italian, Greek, Irish, Jewish, German, Polish, Native American, African American, and Scottish friends. Each ethnicity seemed to have its own little neighborhood, but the paths from one end of town to the next all seemed to intersect ultimately at the school playgrounds, classic downtown, beautiful park/zoo, and ballfields.

Pride in one's cultural background was always obvious and the center of family gatherings. Yet, being an American in the mix of the society was paramount to the adults. Our moms and dads were the "Greatest Generation!" Grandparents spoke as much English as possible. Though their native tongue would forever dominate conversations. That was okay, because it made things interesting. The priority was to become "American" in the sense of libRArY's great website allusion (above).

Now the legality of "God" comes into play. Imagine!? The times, they are a changin'!

Thanks for the site, libRArY. I will share it with several others who, I am sure, will appreciate it!

"by motorcycle"?
I thought he was on a bus. I didn't think Lewis ever drove anything, but it's been a long time since I read "Surprised By Joy"...

fjp451 and Braling II:

You are both correct, in that they were on a motorcycle and that Lewis did not drive (at least not on this occasion).

Lewis rode in the sidecar while Warren drove (it was his bike).

Mycroftholmes said: "Well, the groups are nearly synonimous, or at least, inclusive of each other. Most of the pro-lifers are creationists, although not all creationists are pro-lifers. It's pretty hard to support a 'fetus's' right to life without a corresponding belief in a soul, which of course entails a belief in God or a higher power, which, as such, is generall seen as incompatible with Darwinism."

Mycroft, I must disagree. Although many fundamentalist Christians would say that the belief in God means required acception of creationism, it is not necessary to reject the concept of the divine in order to reject the "theory" of creationism, or the story of Adam and Eve.
Evolution does not inherently imply that there is no creator, though many try to make that argument. As long as the act of creation is divinely inspired, the method (in this case evolution) of bringing that creation to fruition can be anything.
Yes, I am pro life, but also a believer in evolution. I am pro life (which includes being against the death penalty) because I don't think it's right to take away life, since it is not something we can give back. It's just too final.
As for abortion, it would be incredibly convenient if fetuses (feti?) did not have souls (soul = life) and if somebody can prove that they don't then that would be great! But until it's proven either way, I'd say why chance it?

As for "Out of the Silent Planet" it was an excellent book. I loved the part where he describes space as being positive and the planets as beingthe absence of space. I can't remember how he put it, but it made sense. It changed the way I thought about space.

By the way, I'm not much of a bible reader, but out of curiousity I looked at the creation story in Genesis.

Genesis 1:24
"Then God said, 'Let the earth bring forth all kinds of living creatures: cattle, creeping things, and wild animals of all kinds"

Let the earth bring forth....I guess evolution is in the Bible after all!

Here's another fun Bible quote:
Exodus 22:20 "Thou shalt not molest an alien...."

One of my favourite Bible quotes (completely out of context, of course) I like to direct toward guys wearing shorts:

"...[The Lord] takes no pleasure in the legs of a man"!

(Psalm 147:10b)

try this on for size:


Nephilim

The Nephilim were upon the Earth,
In those days and thereafter too,
When the sons of the gods
Cohabitated with the daughters of the Adam,
And they bore children unto them.
They were the mighty ones of Eternity –
The People of the shem.


- Genesis, Chapter 6



Nephilim: Hebrew NFL (“to be cast down”)
Those who were cast down upon Earth



And Elohim said:
“Let us make Man in our image,
after our likeness.”

- Genesis, Chapter 1


Gee, what questions these few words can raise.