Reading these threads have caused me to realize that no matter how we try to DISCUSS, we are all just trying to convince each other that a certain view is MORE right than the other.

These views are less important than whether there are soldiers dying in a war now, and less important than whether we get our alerts up as to how decisions come to be made so that our fellow human beings are sacrificing their lives far far away from our huge malls, SUVs and TVs, movie theatres and mansions.

I had an opinion about Ray and Moore's "conflict" but I will now withold it. Sharing it will not cause us to really understand the possibility of co-existing despite differences, will it? There can be alot of "intellectual" or what not arguments, and that is why LAWYERS sometimes help not so innocent people win. But this is not about being smart. This is what is TRUE. I hope we can all quiet down and allow our hearts to speak, and devote our energies to helping ourselves live in a better world.

I'm against censorship. That DOES NOT mean that I think anyone should be forced to supply the means for a person's voice to be heard. Moore knew a year ago that Disney would not distribute the film...he's just using the issue to stir up controversy.
Moore uses lies, stretched truths and creative editing to advance his leftist agenda.
The fact is it doesn't matter whether Mr. Bradbury agrees with the subject of the film or not...the spirit of the film is intended to strike a specific target at a specific time to do the most political damage possible. He won't even mention the 8 years of neglect on the part of the Clinton administration. It's a completely lopsided account, not of "government" abuses, not a social commentary...but a personal attack.

Bradbury is far above that and he has earned my deepest respect over the years for not sinking into the political arena like so many other celebrities. I love the fact that he comments on issues that bring us together...not issues that divide us.

Amen.

Mega dittoes to Mr. Dark's Amen.

Pete

If Mr. Bradbury continues his attention grabbing over the battle for the title of Moore's movie he most likely fuel the desire for more people to see it. Is it time to let the topic go? Most likely yes because to do otherwise will work against Bradbury.

pterran:

6/12 Cyber -Assault on the Bradbury site

I agree. All these postings swarmed in on cue. Anybody thought this could possibly happen here?

I am a huge RB fan, and do consider "Fahrenheit 451" his masterwork and a true classic. However, the simple fact is that, as RB undoubtedly must know, titles canNOT be copyrighted or trademarked (US Copyright Office Circular 34, available at http://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ34.html )

Thus, no matter how much RB and those who complained about Michael Moore's tactic in this forum may gripe, all RB is doing is giving additional PR to Moore's project.

Moore has done nothing actionable (and really doesn't even owe RB any sort of call at all. (I agree, though, if he said he would call, he should not have waited 6 weeks)

It may be true, as the Associated Press said, that RB is re-releasing his book this year AND that a movie is being developed from it. Congratulations to RB! The Moore controversy will certainly draw people to the box office for RB's new movie too.

All in all, a most surprising reaction from a skilled and venerated author. Bad move, RB!

Again, get the story right. Bradbury has NEVER claimed copyrights to the title. It's about Moore's classlessness in hijacking the title against Bradbury's wishes

quote:

Originally posted by grav8e:
I'm against censorship. That DOES NOT mean that I think anyone should be forced to supply the means for a person's voice to be heard. Moore knew a year ago that Disney would not distribute the film...he's just using the issue to stir up controversy.
Moore uses lies, stretched truths and creative editing to advance his leftist agenda.
The fact is it doesn't matter whether Mr. Bradbury agrees with the subject of the film or not...the spirit of the film is intended to strike a specific target at a specific time to do the most political damage possible. He won't even mention the 8 years of neglect on the part of the Clinton administration. It's a completely lopsided account, not of "government" abuses, not a social commentary...but a personal attack.

Bradbury is far above that and he has earned my deepest respect over the years for not sinking into the political arena like so many other celebrities. I love the fact that he comments on issues that bring us together...not issues that divide us.

Sounds just like Fox telling Al Franken that he cannot use the phrase "fair and balanced".

A web site started by the neo-cons called "moveamericaforward.org" are trying to pressure movie owners from showing the film.

"...I love the fact that he comments on issues that bring us together...not issues that divide us..." Isn't it interesting that this adminastration and the world and the country behind him right after 9/11, but do to their incompentence and arrogance, 90% of the world dislikes us, and this country is more polarized than I can even remember.

What a contradiction on the meaning of "Fahrenheit 451".

Has anyone seen the movie "Captain Horatio Hornblower" with Gregory Peck? In it there is a character named Bush and at one point Peck tells another character to tell Bush to "hold the course." It sounds eerily like "stay the course," doesn't it? I sense a definite right-wing conspiracy here!

Michael Moore's message is an important one, he is trying to wake up the American public! Don't let him be censored! Moore's movie will show truth unknown to many, that is important because people require this truth to think for themselves. Of course everyone does their own thinking, but not when the government lies and covers up truth. We must grip what life is truly about, stop bickering about irrelevent politics, and put an end to this horrible, murderous, dictatorship of an administration!!! Human beings must unite, worldwide! We need true leaders, leaders who are concerned about human beings worldwide, and our civilization's health, not personal wealth. What if you tried to show the truth and people tried to stop you around every corner. What if you tried to show your children what a book looked like and what the truth was, only to have your door kicked in and your house burned down.

I think Ray Bradbury is a good man. I was shocked that he took this stance. I have read several articles since first hearing of Bradbury's problem and have these thoughts:
1)if Bradbury is acting on his own, he is grabbing for attention or just being uptight or greedy
2)if Bradbury's hand is being forced by Disney, then he should come out and say it, the public outcry would hurt Disney
3)if Bradbury's hand is being forced by the government or if Disney is being forced by the government then they should come out and say it, the American people need and want the truth


P.S. Elections are coming, don't lose sight of the goal. The goal is the advancement and betterment of our civilization, not only as Americans, but as Human Beings first and foremost. This election is huge, freedom most win!!! If you are a Human who wants to promote truth, freedom, and wants to put control of this government back into the peoples hands, then truly consider ALL FACTS before you place your important vote. Ray Bradbury is regestired as an independent, good for him. The way we should go is to register as indepentents, this will show our numbers, and will add to our power. When you vote, your motive should be the advancement and betterment of Human Beings. When this is your motive, it is much easier to make the best decision.

Evolve daily,
K

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
pterran:

6/12 Cyber -Assault on the Bradbury site

I agree. All these postings swarmed in on cue. Anybody thought this could possibly happen here?

This respectfully goes out to all members who frequented this site before the flood of people you are now experiencing.

I WAS NOT DIRECTED HERE BY ANY SITE OR ANY ONE!!!

I found my way here myself, because I believe in truth and freedom and Human Beings. I came here to say "Please Mr. Bradbury, tell the truth, someone told you to fart out of your mouth, but tell me if it was you or your movie and book advisors, perhaps someone else?"

Calling all Humans, if you want the truth then truly search for it. Scroll down and find the post's by "DrMikeBuch" and "human"

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

[This message has been edited by rawevolution (edited 06-20-2004).]

Sorry, don't believe you. There is a clear and present swarm here. Whether or not you individually are part of it, I can't say, but you're all making the same false claims about Bradbury's position, so the commonality is coming from a single source.

Can anyone find out where they're all coming from?

Allow me to weight in on the title in question. Moore has a right to name the movie anything he wants. In fact, he can acknowledge that Bradbury's book was the inspiration for the title. It is called Fair Use.

I don't care for Moore one way or the other, but I fail to see Bradbury's case.

Someone is playing someone here. Either Moore is getting extra publicity, or Bradbury just got his name into a larger portion of the public. I got a feeling that both parties are going to make out.

I wanted to email Ray personally. If you can, please pass my message on to him.

Thank you