This whole Prop 8 thing has begun to sound like elementary school, nana na na na na, spoken by those who are the IN-Group, against the unusual or different fellow students, in order to make themselves seem more perfect and important. If you must WIN something, try the Lottery.

Please, love will conquer all. Suppose the shoe was on "The Other Foot" and the desire for a man to marry a woman was thought, by the majority, to be a SIN. How would you feel then? There, but for the grace of GOD, and the statistical odds of DNA programming of human development, go I.

Please, all who are very Religious, Christian or not, stand back and embrace love, not hate. Think how much better the world would be if everyday you embraced someone whom you had previsouly shunned and thus came to know them better as they are. That sounds like something Jesus WOULD do. Ask yourself, is what I am doing or saying today increasing the amount of LOVE in the world or diminishing it? More Love, less Hate, Better world.

The claim that we embrace hate is a result of either/or thinking. It is not hate. I am not the one attacking churches. I am not going after people's jobs or careers.

I am not denying anyone the right to a domestic partnership. What I can't do is accept a homosexual relationship as the moral equivalent of a heterosexual relationship. While there are dysfunctional heterosexuals aplenty, gays can get the kind of relationships they want through domestic partnerships. If the domestic partnerships aren't extensive enough, let's broaden the rights of those relationships.

When gays INSIST that they be granted marriages by the state, they are demanding that their sexual preferences be granted full moral equivalancy to traditionally accepted marriages.

I'm sure you disagree, but I don't see this as the moral equivalent of being black. Since over 70% of blacks in CA voted in favor of Prop 8,I don't think they see it that way, either. Whether anyone likes it or not the behavior of homosexuality has been seen as a moral violation of God's will for centuries. We live in a free country, so we shouldn't impose our will on others unnecessarily. But the demand for marriage is a demand for equivalence. That will probably eventually come, but not without much resistence.

There's no hate here. Not by me. And it shouldn't be characterized as though it is.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mr. Dark,

Right on, Mr. D!
You'd be appalled at the treatment these "loving" people hereabouts visited upon properties or cars displaying "Yes on 8" signs.
I have many homosexual friends and know for a fact that getting society to accept their behaviour as normal is, indeed, their motive in all this. Though, those whom I know do agree that the vandalism above-mentioned does not help their cause. Nor do they consider me a 'homophobe' or hateful because I disagree with their agenda.
But, the number of small-minded people that must think only in terms of shallow stereotypes does, alas! seem to be rapidly growing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Dark:
The claim that we embrace hate is a result of either/or thinking. It is not hate. I am not the one attacking churches. I am not going after people's jobs or careers.

I am not denying anyone the right to a domestic partnership. What I can't do is accept a homosexual relationship as the moral equivalent of a heterosexual relationship. While there are dysfunctional heterosexuals aplenty, gays can get the kind of relationships they want through domestic partnerships. If the domestic partnerships aren't extensive enough, let's broaden the rights of those relationships.

When gays INSIST that they be granted marriages by the state, they are demanding that their sexual preferences be granted full moral equivalancy to traditionally accepted marriages.

I'm sure you disagree, but I don't see this as the moral equivalent of being black. Since over 70% of blacks in CA voted in favor of Prop 8,I don't think they see it that way, either. Whether anyone likes it or not the behavior of homosexuality has been seen as a moral violation of God's will for centuries. We live in a free country, so we shouldn't impose our will on others unnecessarily. But the demand for marriage is a demand for equivalence. That will probably eventually come, but not without much resistence.

There's no hate here. Not by me. And it shouldn't be characterized as though it is.

Just a few last thoughts here:
Separate WAS NOT equal for black schools vs white schools. It is NOT Equal to allow same sex Domestic Partnerships and not full rights under CIVIL law to be married. This is not a moral issue, but a CIVIL one. Change the definition of marriage to: Two Persons who are commited to love , honor and support each other, until death they do part. It is a CIVIL issue, not a religious one. Why this is even on the ballot is beyond me. Maintaining this position of Biblical correctness, and so called moralilty, is just irrelevent. I think if the religious institutions had been doing a better job of teaching acceptance rather than exclusion they would not be loosing membership. It will ultimately come down to a matter of dollars and sense. Power to affect the pocketbooks of those who would restrict a CIVIL right because of personal belief will ultimately change their minds to the idiocy of the arguement.

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
...That's what I like to see - a mad Englishman!...

I don't get mad, I get stabby.

Oh no, that's not me, it's Fat Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by philnic:
I don't get mad, I get stabby.

Oh no, that's not me, it's Fat Tony.

Stabby? Fat Tony?

Oh, The Simpsons!

patrask, Hell, unborn babies arn't real humans, so ending their life is a civil matter.

Let's legalize pornography by decriminalizing it.
It's not a moral matter, it's civil. (dozens of skin magazines retreat, shuddering in the corner, afraid that they will be next to be sued) circa 1965. Enter the internet, and the main driving force behind the activity and increase in the internet is pornography. Hell with restraint. It's civil, not moral.

Marriage? Hell, you don't need to stinking marriage. Live together. How about a starter wife to practice on marriage? The church has become like a fuddy-duddy. They are old fashioned. Sleeping around is cool. This isn't a moral problem, it's my right to do as I wish.

Movies can depict violence and evil as far as the imagination can imagine. Those restraints of the Church, like the Catholic League of Decency, or the theatrical Codes, are passe'. This is not a moral issue, but the right of the artist creator to work under the banner of free speech.

Seems so right. So end the life of those that suffer. There is no practical moral value of extending pain. This is a civil issue anyway.

Let men have babies.

Let's legalize selling body parts. A person should have the right to sell what is his or hers. This is not a moral issue. Keep the church out of it. This is a civil issue, a civil rights issue.

Mixing the genes of animals and humans should not be considered a moral issue. Much can be learned from this. This need not be stuff relegated to science-fiction of H.G. Wells.

A couple should have the exclusive right to design their own offspring, by whatever is medically available to them to do so. God has nothing to do with this. Discoveries in biology have advanced far enough that we now know the fundamental processes of designing babies.

Keeping humans in confinement, such as jail or penitentary, needs to be stopped. Prejudice on one group of peoples because their values do not co-exists favorably with another, is a trampling upon their civil rights. Their place in society is a civil right, and they must be allowed acceptance by others into a society at large.

Because of the great financial collapses of the past, micro chips and other electronic discoveries allow tracking of an individuals purchases and keeps the financials honest. Embedded under the skin, say the wrist,or on the forehead for easy scanning, it will soon eliminate the need of paper currency, or the use/misuse of banking and financial cards. This can be considered both a moral and civil matter.

The concept of a god must be removed from all
avenues of government agencies and processes where such displays may test a person's ability to be free.

Absence of animation by another, upon another, is justified under a list of situations where the act is considered benefitting society. The word murder need no longer be part of the vocabulary of a society.

2nd Thessalonians, 2-11
scripture reminder:

'Because of their unrepented sin, in those days, I will bring a strong delusion upon the peoples so that they will believe a lie, and not embrace the truth so that they would live'.

___________________________________

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
Let men have babies.

Now I would give a dollar and a quarter to see that!

Doug, cough up that $1.25.

What, you didn't watch that fellow's months of being pregnant on the Oprah Show?

http://providencedailydose.com/2008/04/04/move-over-sch...s-no-longer-fiction/

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:
What, you didn't watch that fellow's months of being pregnant on the Oprah Show?

I must have missed it during my refusal to watch daytime TV. Ever.

(And most nighttime, too)

Well said, Mr. Knox, sir.
(I'm referring to your lengthier post above.)
Have you noticed that patrask didn't respond to my question (posted twice, in the appropriate thread), asking how his black friends felt about homosexuals equating their 'rights' with those they (blacks) had to fight for?

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
Well said, Mr. Knox, sir.
(I'm referring to your lengthier post above.)
Have you noticed that patrask didn't respond to my question (posted twice, in the appropriate thread), asking how his black friends felt about homosexuals equating their 'rights' with those they (blacks) had to fight for?

Now that is an easy one to answer; I thought the need was mute. Since most African American families are members of one or another Christian Church, it appears that their ministers selectively taught them that homosexuality is a SIN. Thus, using the Bible, that absolute reference of correctness for all things in the world, even if in itself it is contradictory in the extreme, it is not surprising that the majority of African American believers would support Prop 8. There is however, some recent polling evidence, that, given the correct information on the issue, they might not have supported Prop 8. So the beat will go on, the fight will continue, and the issue will finally resolved by clear thinking, empathetic people who see no harm in allowing two PEOPLE to achieve the same happiness as a couple in a CIVIL joining of their paths in life together.

Let's turn this around:
Why is it so important to maintain control of the definition of marriage? Do you, who are believers in the teachings of the Bible, either Testament, feel so threatened by this group of people, who wish to love one another and be allowed to live in peace with their chosen partners, that you must single them out and stone them with the rocks of difference to make yourselves feel better, or is it safer. This is nonsense. Work toward eliminating torture, child exploitation, discrimination against women, who are your equal partners in this dream we call life, and many other REAL issues that are evidence of Man's in humanity toward Man/Woman. That is an admirable quest and I would support that effort.

Homo - Man
Phobia - fear

Fear of Man?

It's quite evident, then that you don't know any "African-Americans". How "Massuh"-like of you to presume to know how their simple little minds had been brainwashed.
Check your racist stereotypes at the door.
Shame on you.

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
It's quite evident, then that you don't know any "African-Americans". How "Massuh"-like of you to presume to know how their simple little minds had been brainwashed.
Check your racist stereotypes at the door.
Shame on you.

I simply will not tolerate your comments. I am not a racist, far from it, and believe in the equality of all people and their right to the pursuit of happiness under the law. There were no racist stereotypes in any of my comments.