patrask, do you always have to try to insult Christians?
You say, "Those who think the movie dangerous to their points of view." Who else but Christians are you referring to? Certainly not those of Islamic faith, or the Jewish. "Christians hijacked Narnia"? What is that supposed to mean? You say you are trying to find truth wherever you can find it? Exactly, how would you know truth if you found it?

I retract that hug. Define "truth".

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:
Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me.

In British public schools we have a slight variant: "Sticks and stones might break my bones, but words will probably give me a nervous breakdown."

quote:

Originally posted by tinkerbell:
I retract that hug. Define "truth".

Truth:
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth , and the life; no one finds the Father but by me, the Son."

~John chapter 14, verse 6

Is that supposed to be an answer?

You asked What is TRUTH. I gave you the answer.

Maybe I will find that the premise of The Golden Compass is congruent with the famous dictum:

Power tends to corrupt, and abslute power corrupts absolutely - attributed to Sir John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Action - Lord Acton.

This comment was made in April 1887 in a letter to Bishop Mandell Creighton of the Catholic Church in response to the promulgation by Pope Pius IX of the dogma of Papal infallibility. A further, little-known phase was:

Great men are almost always bad men.

I first became aware of Lord Acton's dictum on a T-Shirt picturing a 427 Shelby Cobra, which I wore with pride as I drove in my 289 FIA Cobra Replica.

Only later did I research the origin of the dictum, and how it was issued by a Catholic against his Pope, who was advocating total infallibility in his judgements.

I think I will find this is the message of The Golden Compass, beware of the power of the organized Church, as it will become corrupt and then attempt to enforce its will on the people, against their natural tendencies to be good human beings. Doing bad things in the name of Good is the henious of crimes.

As I said in another post, one message of The Christ is to love one another. Such a message should not be franchised to only one form of organized religion, and yet, that appears to be the case. I grew up living next to Saint Monica Catholic Church and once asked a Monsenior if I could worship in his church. He said of course. I then asked him if he would come and worship with me in our protestant church. He declined. I asked him why. He said that there is no God in that church, it is just a building. From that day on I became suspicious of any religion that claims to be the only answer to life's big questions.

We are all here without a choice, as to where or into what society we have been born. What we make of our lot is the only tribute that we can give to the Creator who provides us with a questioning mind, and enables us to find our own way through the living.

If Mankind is to long survive and move on to the next level of development, we must learn that there is no absolute Truth. There are Truths and there are shades of answers depending on the questions that are asked. As long as we keep asking, we may yet discover greater Truth than we currently believe in. I fervently pray that we will wake up and recognize that we are all the same, just people trying to understand the Mystery of why we are here. One answer is as good as another, unless it becomes an Absolute answer. That should invalidate it for further consideration. The only thing constant is change. I pray that we will both acknowledge that fact and then evolve, by turning what can become Hate and segregation into groups who "Know the Answers" into Love of our common condition and the compassion to see that we are all here on a tiny little blue ball in an enormous universe which we have not yet the brain power to fully comprehend. Yet we continue to try.

"...I will build my church, and the gates of Hell will not overcome it." Matthew 16:18 (NKJ)

Doesn't sound like He meant disorganized religion, eh?

Well, a lot of us would rather be "...tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error..."
Ephesians 4:14 (ASV)

Of course, most religions, at least those embracing any ascesis, grew from imperfect men imperfectly realizing their imperfection and attempting to attain an imperfect ideal of perfection by (inherently) imperfect means.

Good luck to you!

patrask:
PHIL~
Hey, being myself a hopeless car-nut in the past, I must ask: just when and where did you find ownership of this make-believe 289 Cobra you speak of?

One of them noisy 289 cannisters pulled up next to me this past summer up on Moulton Ave. It sure looked genuine. Hollaring thru an open window, I asked the driver if it was the real deal!! Sure enough, it wasn't. I can't believe that the original car cost less than $5,000 when they were new, and those originals now go for up to a quarter million dollars and way up from there, especially for those Lion-roaring 427s.
~~~

I was raised a Roman Catholic, and actually worked for a foreign-language Roman Catholic newspaper before moving back to Los Angeles in 2006. Of all the priests I came across during my newspaper stint, only one was authentic, that is to say, a genuine believer. His name? Father Bagdanovich...(known fondly as Father Baggy)! He's since passed away, but was a joy to listen to and involve in a theological discussion. The other priests there included an alcoholic of no particular observable conversation, another accused with some sort of child misbehaviour, and one other who was convinced he had certain books in his possession unquestionablywritten by Jesus himself. Now, maybe some of these elderly folk were experiencing the short-circuiting of getting near or beyond the 4 score of years. But this is certain: thruout my experiences of 8 years of elementary school with teaching nuns, and 4 years of Augustian monk teachers, I never once heard the Gospel of who Jesus was in a way that connected with me, or that I could in any way actually understand!

Eventually I 'wandered' into a somewhat 'legalistic' community of Christians where I discovered the first confrontation of truth in Christ. Later, thru a series of many opportunities of community Bible studies in othere places, and under the studies of a variety of learned Bible expositors, I began to finally "get it". (Interesting to note, that in the beginning of my serious seeking truth in scripture, it was a Roman Catholic Italian priest, who kicked me in the right direction. He was in Los Angeles under doctor's care for some eye malady. Looking back, now, he knew what was up, and so must have his local superior. He had been put in special ministry and was foremost to only preach at Catholic Mass in as many local parishes as possible, not necessary perform the ritual-rites of Catholic Mass. I''m sorry I lost track of the man.)

So when you say ( in your previous post) that Mankind must learn that there is no absolute truth, I say you've fallen for the cultural-lie of the day. That's the current prevailing bravada, isn't it? That there is no absolute truth!? The fact is that Christianity is not learned in an hour, or a day, but during a lifetime of daily, hourly dedication. What instills in me the energy and strength to deal with myself and continue to understand Christ, is moments when Christ connects you to His Father, and for a split moment, you see "it"!" And that "it", is a glimpse of Love thrown into your mind and heart with all the trimmings of who you really are ...from the hand of God. It usually is unexplainable, undescribable, unsearchable. But you know one thing! God loves you beyond your sin. In return, by Grace, clean up your life! Be good! Be moral! The effort is God-given initiative and action. But often, especially in the beginning, or after falling back into some reckless sin that has had a tight hold on you, in the next few moments you may forget it all. St. Peter in his Gospels produced some writing on that problem.

But in the daily getting up and going on again, 'Truth' begins to get a hold of your life...or let me put it this way: You begin to get a hold of Truth! Truth can and often draws you into deserts and storms of the human conditon and the realities of life, as well as brings you thru that valley of the shadow of evil. But... 'thru' it, 'uncaught' by its power.

Those thru the centuries that have taken the option to trust in Christ, experience the same experiences. You begin to learn what it means that whatever Christ suffered, you suffer as well...you are no longer suffering independently of Him.
Christ said he was the 'beginning' of all things, and is the 'end' of all things, and thru Him, 'everything that is'...came into existence. Connecting with Christ brings you to begin to see this infinite, unending, forever, reality that is called Truth!

Thanks Nard. I get it.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil Knox:

quote:

Originally posted by tinkerbell:
I retract that hug. Define "truth".

Truth:
Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth , and the life; no one finds the Father but by me, the Son."

~John chapter 14, verse 6

Well that's a cop out, quoting John quoting Jesus. What's your own definition?

tinkerbell, After a long struggle, I've come to the conclusion that Jesus is Truth. I agree with Nard's posting.

(I've noticed that in England, where church-going has fallen to neglible numbers, The Golden Compass did well.)

I don't see why in the world you would buy and read the books. You're supporting this man by doing that!

quote:

Originally posted by ofthedarkcarnival:
I don't see why in the world you would buy and read the books. You're supporting this man by doing that!

If you are refering to the books I have ordered by Philip Pullman, the answer, of course, is I have yet read them, so why would I pre-judge the content? An open mind finds lots to take joy in and some to avoid, but the closed mind can only avoid. What a strange way to live, avoiding what you don't presently agree with. We likely all have found that we have changed our minds about some things as we ourselves have changed over time.

For the author's words on this check oput the following:

http://www.philip-pullman.com/index.asp

Happy reading.

Neglible is a good word (?)

(Sport - I'm having sport!)