God isn't dead, he never existed in the first place. The fact that so many people believe doesn't necessarily prove they're right, either. It only proves that Christianity very cleverly amalgamated a collection of myths and lore that was there before the advent of the prophet/philosopher Jesus Christ - myths that had a certain appeal and were sure to draw in a lot of followers. There's nothing 'new' about Christianity. Even the Holy Communion can be explained in terms of ancient ritualistic magic: partake of the god, and you will become godlike yourself (an instance of homeopathic magic). And so on.

But I thought we were here to discuss the work of Ray Bradbury. I wonder: does HE believe in God?

Curses, did it again! Since yesterday I have had problems accessing the Message Board. Divine intervention? When I submit a reply it doesn't always immediately register, hence the occasional double post. Appy polly logies.

I think there have been problems with the board the last couple days. I hope they work themselves out. In the meantime, you can edit all your subsequent posts by going in on the icon with a pencil and delete your text. That way, we only read a single entry, even though there are many there.

The argument that God doesn't exist because the idea is old and is an amalgam of previous mythologies is interesting but not conclusive. Interestingly, the idea that there is no God is as old as the idea that there is one.

Those waiting for proof of God will probably be disappointed. It is not really the point of God.

My own view on Bradbury's belief is that Bradbury believes in the idea of God -- the idea that life is more than we are. That we are made to appreciate the beauties and opportunities that exist in the universe. He definitely does not buy a traditional christian view of God, but uses the symbols of religion to talk about what the DOES believe creates meaning. He has often said you have to get outside yourself.


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 07-31-2004).]

What sort of god are we talking about here? The infinite god? The Very finite "good human person" god? A creature with a highier intellect? let us first define god here - Mr Dark's last post shows that our understanding of the word is not uniform. I would tend to disagree with all but a very real (ie, non-metaphysical) being who knows more than we do - but is not apporaching infinity in any way.

You guys should watch "The Life of Brian" to see how myths are made.

Cheers, Translator

I love that movie... I'm talking about the same sort of god that you are. Because I do not believe in god at all I have brought no new ideas of god to the table... Whatever god it is you believe in, define and prove it if you would like, but I'm not going to trouble myself with defining what I don't believe in.

Somebody once asked me "If you're a true agnostic, then why are you so afraid of 'those idiots who believe in God'?" My reply was: "Because there's so many of them."

Hey - they may yet be right. Agnostic means that you don't know for sure. I am one myself. I don;t know. I'm more ceratin about there not being God than anything else in the world, but I can never be 100% certain. Which means there is a small chance that they're right. Trust me,
I'll be the mose surprised person of all, but it's not entirely impossible.
Cheers, Translator

PS - this degree of certainty is just about the only thing that seperates one view from another. My level of ceratainty on this is near nil, but not zero. I'm more ceratain that Hitler was my son (mind you, I'm 21), than that there is a Christian God, but hey, anything is possible.

Gothic:

Go to the icon (the little drawing) with the the pencil and the little piece of paper with lines on it, right above your post section, ... click on that... and you can "erase" your duplicated posts, or edit them.
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Gothic:

You say you don't believe in God. Even the devil believes in God. That's nothing new.

You reject the premise that you are born with the knowledge of God, as being the fundamental character of human beings thruout history.
Well, something either happened to you so you no longer understand, or....???

Understanding what is meant by God may help. To say God is the creator, and etc etc etc... is to give all the cliches, and who wants that?

I'll give you a little twinkle off the rock, a simple look inside the window....so you can at least get this idea of what the heck is going on with this God thing. (I'm not going to get into the realms of a person being born a sinner, whereby it is impossible to understand God unless He first seeks us. Or other such stuff.)

...so consider this:

This is like scratching at the surface, but it's an attempt to show you something about what God looks like:

_______

Think of the the most cherished moment in your life, an afternoon, or a situation, a day when all the things seemed to converge upon an incident, or the moments of some hour that seems undescribable. Or how about an evening with the family somewhere back when you were growing up, when the world seemed to go on forever, you were a part of it, and you will never forget.

Well, you are begining to get a glimpse of the character of God. You must remember. We are made in the image of God, but it's a 'fractured' image in our lifetime.

I'm leaving it like that. It's the best I can do this morning, Saturday.

Thanks, Nard & Mr Dark. Doesn't seem to work, though.I click on the icon, then alter (or erase) the massage; do I click on the Submit Reply button again after that, or what?

Thanks for the beautiful simile, Nard, I'm not impervious to that sort of thing - hey, I'm a Bradbury fan! Only, I get such feelings almost exclusively from a Burkean sense of the sublime. If you choose to call that 'God', that's entirely ok with me.

". . . alter (or erase) the MASSAGE . . ." What was I thinking?!

Btw, it's just past 21:00 here now.

Gothic,

Yes, after you delete your text, hit the submit reply button. Oughtta work.

Everyone,

Re: Bradbury and God. Hasn't Bradbury written somewhere about optimism and marvelling at the world around us as being our purpose? To do otherwise would appear to be ungrateful to the Creator? (Or am I channeling Peggy Noonan?) Anyway, from prior discussions on this board about Bradbury's beliefs, I thought we'd concluded about what Mr. Dark had said.

Best,

Pete

One more time:

Ray is considered by Unitarians, as one of them.

Does Ray consider himself a Unitarian?
I don't know. I do know he has spoken at Unitarian churches.

Ray seems to have had some sound Christian influence in his upbringing. Ray has written about Christ, in poetry and short stories. But does he believe the basics of the faith today? I'd venture to say, No. Doesn't mean he can not regain what he probably knew from a distance when he was much younger.

I'd say today he leans a great deal to a 'liberal' view of spirtuality, whatever that means...

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[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 07-31-2004).]

But Bradbury does not remove responsibility from religion, like SOME liberals do.

In case anyone finds this confusing...I deleted the actual duplicate posts, but left all the discussion about them for future reference. It's a pretty common problem on this particular board. Part of it has to do with the page "refreshing" faster on one system than on another.

Ray attended Sunday School every week until the age of 13. After that, he was an atheist for awhile. What he may be now is hard to define but is nothing if not unconventional.

For what it's worth, how many times in Bradbury stories do we read: "Yes, we'll gather at the river..." (quoting the old hymn)?