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Religion 101 or How is the orange crop doing?
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Ok, now this is gonna be risky:

The act of giving one's self up to a higher power is certainly known to be a part of many religious experiences. Surrender to achieve complete freedom. That I understand. Now, if it matters whether I surrender to Jesus, then I do not understand. The reason is that I cannot comfirm, outside of what you term Scripture, 1) that there was a historical Jesus as described in the NT; 2) that there is much to support the case that there was not a historical Jesus in other research, readings from the time and after of the happenings in Galilee. You must do your own reading to understand this convolution of history. Redactions on redactions by those who would control the message have occurred and the result is a get-it-all-in-one-source book of stories that tell of a savior who acts like, has quaities of, and does the same things as, many of the other saviors that predate him. So what am I to make of all of this?

Given that I am committed to Truth, not just belief in A Truth, I am left with the fact that the Process of Surrender to a higher power works. I accept that. I will even commit to do that. I cannot commit to follow another mystical magic friend story when there are so many others with the nearly identical properties: (too numerous too list here, see other literature on this subject.)

Bottom line, my Truth is constantly changing as new information becomes available to me. We live in a wonderful time for people like myself, but it can be a scary time for those who are locked in to one belief, as new information will challenge that belief. Was there an Exodus? Some say no, others say there were three over many years, redacted into one story in the OT or Torah. Was there a Jesus with all of the details described in the NT? Even the four Canonical gospels cannot agree on much here. Does it all really matter? Are the details of a story what is important or is the belief what is paramount? Each of us finds his comfort with his creator in some way. I continually look for new information, but I fundamentally believe that I cannot KNOW God. I can know about God and about love and good and bad, but to Know God is to be God like, a wonderful goal, but likely unattainable for mere mortal humans. The language of the universe appears to be mathematics. Maybe we reach for the stars through a better understanding of how the universe works using the language of mathematics, and that may be the language of God?

I will give myself up to a higher power in that pursuit.
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Gospels cannot agree? For shame, Mr. Patrask. You listen to too many Know-It-Nothings.

Why not give it a trial run? Begin to accept the claims of Christ. What do you think it's going to do, warp your mind?
 
Posts: 439 | Location: Oak Park, IL | Registered: 19 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The gates of Hell are locked from the inside.
 
Posts: 3163 | Location: Box in Braling I's cellar | Registered: 02 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Braling II:
The gates of Hell are locked from the inside.


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

- John, the Dreamer
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, but are dreams real?
 
Posts: 2769 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, but John Lennon thought they were more important than Jesus. Come on! This is all crazy! Why not just put up the golden calf on display again and bow before it. That's the direction at least this culture is heading. Probably there already actually.
 
Posts: 439 | Location: Oak Park, IL | Registered: 19 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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American Idol finalist DAVID ARCHULETA, the teenage singing sensation, refused to sing certain words in John Lennon's Imagine on American Idol because it demeaned the character of God.

Go David!
 
Posts: 384 | Location: Anaheim, CA. | Registered: 21 June 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by patrask:
I continually look for new information, but I fundamentally believe that I cannot KNOW God. I can know about God and about love and good and bad, but to Know God is to be God like, a wonderful goal, but likely unattainable for mere mortal humans.


Patrask, you continually look for new information. Well, here's some. You've likely never read it. A wonderful goal to know God? Of course. Here's how it's done:

Ehesians 1, verses 3 to 5: (in the New Testament, New Living Expanded Version)

"Long ago, even before God made the world, the universe, the stars, before he made everything that you see, God already knew you and loved you and he loved you in this way: he took you even then, before all that was made, and combined you with the character and spirit and soul of Jesus Christ. So that Jesus would eventually absorb you fully into his own being and give you His mind. God did this so you would be holy and without fault in His eyes. He did this because He loves you. His unchanging plan has always been to adopt us into His own family by bringing us to Himself through His son Jesus Christ. And all this gave God great pleasure."
 
Posts: 439 | Location: Oak Park, IL | Registered: 19 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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How can a song demean the character of God? The lyrics aren't profane or blasphemous, just misguided as they question the structures on which so many rely to give life meaning.
 
Posts: 7085 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by embroiderer:
Come on! This is all crazy! Why not just put up the golden calf on display again and bow before it. That's the direction at least this culture is heading. Probably there already actually.


Correct. Twenty minutes late on that: http://slog.thestranger.com/20..._calfs_all_growed_up
 
Posts: 7085 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by patrask:
...to Know God is to be God like, a wonderful goal, but likely unattainable for mere mortal humans.

The Mormons would disagree with that.


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6895 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by libRArY:
American Idol finalist DAVID ARCHULETA, the teenage singing sensation, refused to sing certain words in John Lennon's Imagine on American Idol because it demeaned the character of God.

Johnny Cash refused to sing certain lyrics in John Prine's excellent Sam Stone, probably for the same reason.


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6895 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Bottom line, my Truth is constantly changing as new information becomes available to me.


So truth is not fixed (even in fundamental principles), it is just a process. If that is so, how does science get us any truth that is not subject to revision at any moment--or is that not even the goal any more?
 
Posts: 2769 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by patrask:
Even the four Canonical gospels cannot agree on much here.

No, they can't. It is amazing to contemplate the forms into which the gospel can degenerate.


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6895 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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They are written by four different people in four different places. It would be odd if they agreed in all the minute details. It would argue toward collusion and fraud. The fundamental truths espoused in the gospels are quite consistent. You're trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. In so doing, you miss the point of the gospels. You substitute the important and significant for the trivial and insignificant. Your loss, really.
 
Posts: 2769 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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