Come come now...
Because of the homosexual thing?
Homosexuals think Keyes is a nut case.
Keyes says homosexuals need Christ. Like any sinner needs Christ.
But then they even picketed Obama as well. Many cared for neither candidate.
Are all unrepented-sinners to spin off into a forever life of unlimited abandonment and ruthless confrontations by overwhelming powers and designs because they failed to acquire the knowledge of life in the eternal, thru grace, while on this dim-witted planet? Scripture tends to strongly say that's the case!
That's Keye's main drum beat. The moral mess. Sin! Homosexual marriage. Abortion. On these pivot moral society. Of course there is a longer laundry list:
All get lost in the maze of the hereafter with dire consequences. And they mess up the GOP as well. I think Keyes bit off a lot more than he can chew. Saying he's going to hang around here in Illinois and try to clean house in the Republican party. Wow! But then, why play it safe like Obama?
Case in Point:
I listened to Obama intently, and first read about his beliefs and views in the 'Chicago Tribune' profile. His religious views on Christianity are so strange I almost fell out of my chair at the kitchen table at home. I actually hollared out words to the effect of ''What...This is Crazy!!!'' Youthful, lots of 'kid smarts', and lots to learn, while completely naive about salvation. Why else would Obama come up with things like... "there are many ways to heaven". Really! Hasn't his pastor told him that's an anti-Christian message!
I have to hope that he matures in the years ahead of him, begining while in office. But he's off on the wrong foot in his relation with Christ, this Christ that he says he is a believer of. His moral compass is skewed here. Keyes knows that . And he would have none of that! Keyes was absolutely correct in his take on Obama. And over 1,200,000 Illinois voters agreed with Keyes. That's about every other person in Chicago. Think about THAT!
I posted a reply here but undoubtedly hit the 'new post' box out of absentmindedness. Did it go somewhere into the ether? Can it be dragged back here? Or shall I just type it over?
There you go again, Nard.
[This message has been edited by lmskipper (edited 11-06-2004).]
[This message has been edited by lmskipper (edited 11-06-2004).]
As long as the ball's rolling . . .
Let's get the numbers right.
It is said --- correct me if I'm wrong --- that about 1.5 million abortions occur yearly in the U.S.
I am guessing --- just using my sense of reality as a guide --- that the number of would-be adoptive couples on the waiting lists in the U.S. is between 10,000 and 50,000.
That leaves 1.45 million unwanted and unadopted babies , if all are carried to term, in the first year. And, since the waiting lists have been cleared, probably 1.49 million each succeeding year.
I'm taking no simple position. I just want to see real arguments made, not wish-it-were-trues.
Now: WHY are all these unwanted pregnancies being generated? Answer: because LITTLE BOYS, age 21 and under, won't use rubbers, while they consider sex an entitlement. Ditto for their retarded counterparts of more advanced years. (How's that for the voice of the curmudgeon?)
And how did this situation come about? Generally, 1/because of the loss of certain links between the generations that formerly held but no longer exist; 2/because of the inventive use by the free-market system of sex as a promoter of the sale of goods.
Now: WHAT can be done, realistically?
Answer me that.
P.S. --- Sorry, Mr. D., but it looks like your thread has been hijacked --- for the time being.
I know this is a little bizarre, but how about if we leave the judgement to God? Paul wrote instructions to the effect, that we are to "owe no man anything but to love one another." As I get older, I realize that my job is to love and accept others and to seek out truth, and that God's job -- assuming he wants it -- is to judge.
h.rosseau -- looks like we posted at the same time. No wonder my computer was confused and acting funny.
[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 11-06-2004).]
Brave New World, here ya go: http://content.health.msn.com/content/article/96/103766.htm?GT1=5706
Huh. I'm still making inquiries as to the HUNDREDS of posts which disappeared from the "Ruled Paper" thread AFTER being there for months. I actually found online a version of the thread including them, but it needs to be incorporated with the existing thread. These posts disappearing by ones and twos--particularly those which never showed up in the first place--are quite beyond me.
DAMN that HAL!!!! Eating posts left and right, with no consideration of the people attempting to read/compose them!
h. rousseau - you can't just blame the men for those babies; as my father always said, "It takes two to tango!" The girls/women are just as bad, these days!
Wrote a lengthy post about the judgment comment, but it got deleted. Think the computer ..couldn't handle the truth!! (Ha!)
So, to paraphrase:
Judgment begins in the house of the Lord. You can judge other believers, but non-believers you let God judge. When Obama says he's a Christian, then he has to be confronted. That's scriptural.
I admit that judgement can be a complex issue in specific scriptures, but I still maintain two things:
(1) Judgement is mine, saith the Lord. And the instruction to us is to judge not, lest we be judged. While I admit there are some isolated scriptures that seem to provide for judgement by the saints, I'm not so sure they don't indirectly apply to times when you are specifically driven by the spirit; or may even apply to a judgement AFTER this earthly existence. I would suggest that the general bulk of scripture is clear that judgement is God's. I would be very, very careful before I abrogated to myself the position of judge -- whether inside the church/body of Christ, or outside.
(2) If God is defined by love (God is Love), if the highest law is to love God and to love our fellowman (Christ's specific answer to a direct question about what is the MOST important law), if we are to "owe no many anything but love", etc., then I would say that when we, as Christians, have a choice between love and judgement, we should go with love every time.
That's my personal Sunday sermon.
See, the problem is that Christians know truth! You yourself know that !
Those on the outside argue, "...well, they think 'they' are better than someone else", "...or "...what makes them think they have the corner on truth?"...or "...what is truth anyway? What makes them think they know what it is?" or "...everyone has their own idea of truth, as long as it works for them, what's the problem?". Gets very touchy 'outside' the church.
As a believer, I know what truth is, and I know when it comes down to moral behaviour, I have the right to confront another brother or sister, and they have the right to confront me. I thank God when someone comes up to me and confronts me because they can only do such a thing in love.
You know the procedure:
You go up one on one with another, and bring the issues before him (or her.) If they don't listen, you take someone else with you and confront the person. If they don't listen to reason, you bring them before the church.
But, how many adhere to this procedure, which is clearly marked out in scripture? Few! The body of Christ runs a gamut of worldly behaviour. Life is full of heartaches and flaws, troubles and woes, bills at the end of the month with not that much money to pay them, or sometimes no money at all, along with pains and aches. Who cares?...seems to be the reasoning of a lot in the Church.
A guy like Alan Keyes comes along and he is fire and brimstone from another age, it would seem. There's a few of these guys around, and a rare breed in politics. All else is...''business as usual!!''
Hmm, I always thought there was a distinction between faith and knowledge...
Not anymore. Another state just approved teaching "creationism" in public schools.
'Faith' is the....'evidence'...
of things not seen.
This takes us back to Bradbury's "No Particular Night or Morning" where the theme is the question of what we can and can't know.
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