First I would like to state that im sorry if this is old information, or posted here before but I used the search and found nothing so I figured I would post and get your feedback.

I am required to do a term paper in my english 102 (Freshman) class, as all classes are. Our paper is to be done on a novel with a corresponding film, I am reading and watching F451. I love bradbury so thats why I picked F451. I had only read the book once prior to this assignment.

I just finished reading it again and was thinking back through the book, and though about how Montag remembered Ecclesiastes and part of Revelation. I thought long and hard about why Bradbury chose Ecclesiastes instead of any other book in the Bible. At first I just played it off as a random pick, which it very well might be. I havent done any Internet research about F451 or why he might have chosen that book. Well, I am getting off track so I will get to my point now.

I opened my Bible and began reading Ecclesiastes in order to gain some insight into this matter. Ecclesiastes in my perspective, says that life with its endless routines and cycles, it is easy to say life is futile since it is impossible to determine any purpose in what happens. chaper 4 verse 1 and chapter 8 verse 8 lead me to these assumptions if anyone cares to read them.

I also saw that a whole chapter is devoted to mans wickedness, such as the wickedness of mankind in F451.
Chapter 7 verse 19 says "Wisdom strengtheneth the wise more than ten mighty men which are in the city." this is the verse that really struck me, because Montag read the books and became more wise. The city to me indicates the city that he lived in and fled because he was running for his life, and it ultimatly saved him when the bombs fell.

There are many more instances in Ecclesiastes and the Bible that I feel tie into the book,and the book tie into the Bible. for example the lines near the end of Fahrenheit speaking of the tree of life. but there is not enough room to post them all. I might be way off in left field with this idea I have, but hey cut me some slack I am just a college kid tryin to get some insight.

If anyone wishes to comment, good or bad, it wont hurt my feelings any for you to tell me im wrong. But I would really appreciate it if anyone can help steer me in the right direction.

thanks,
Steven

*edit* was fixing some typos I found, and added the P.S....


P.S. oops, I guess I should have posted this in the reasearch forums....stupid me..sorry

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ill Will,

Ill Will:

Hey! Welcome.

Do me a favor:
Tell me the chapter and approximate page you found the Bible references in ''Fahrenheit 451''. Let me read this over in the 'context' of the ''Fahrenheit'' story. And I'll try to answer your question(s).

In my copy of F451, the two references to Ecclesiastes and Revelations are on pages 176 and 186, near the end of the book. I believe the references to the Tree of Life that close the book are from Revelations 22:2.

I think this is a good idea. Ecclesiastes is, in my view, the most philosophical of the books (in terms of seeking answers through questions), and it seems like this is the process the "new" world will have to take to overcome the recent dark ages they've lived through.

Hello Nard,

I would tell you, but I dont take very good notes, so i dont know off the top of my head. I plan on reading it again writing down the refrences I find and I will let ya know ASAP.

It might be about 3 or 4 days, cause I am reading the whole book again, but Ill try to hurry.

Ill Will:

Well, 'Ecclesiastes' is a book that was written about the meaningless of human wisdom. I have not pulled it off my shelf, but I recall it begins along the lines of ...''all is meaningless''...referring to human wisdom. All the studies, all the figuring out..winds up in the trash heap...compared to the incomparable knowledge of God.

As to why Ray put this in "Fahrenheit 451?" My guess...it sounded good...'Ecclesiastes'... the way the word forms on the tongue just feels good and sounds really nice! Seriously. If there is more to it than that...show me! Otherwise, are all the books written, with no reflection of God, worthless? 'Ecclesiastes' more than seems to say so...

And 'Revelation' ...sounds important. Notice both books are mentioned by Montag near the end of "Fahrenheit", in the same breath...with (no pun intended)...Denham's Dentrifice..even tho there is none around.

I wonder if the reference to Ecclesiastes is ironic? Any thoughts on this? As Nard pointed out, the book of Ecclesiastes seems to downplay the value of human wisdom and reflection:

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow." (Eccl 1:18)

This is the crux of Beatty's argument, isn't it? -- that the kind of knowledge found in books does nothig but create strife, ambiguity and confusion. This creates unhappiness, discontent and depression.

Ecclesiastes recounts the thoughts of a person who is seeking to find wisdom and meaning in a world apparently devoid of either. He fears that all of life's learning and labor result in nothing -- as man dies in the end, anyway. All of man's efforts -- both in learning, and in accumulation and in fame -- result in nothing but the wind.

In the end, the author of Ecclesiastes closes with this:

"And further, by these my son be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh. Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Eccl 12:12,13)

For Bradbury, Ecclesiastes seems to represent the quest for knowledge and meaning. But the irony is that the conclusion of Ecclesiastes seems closer to Beatty's solution (that many books = many ideas = confusion and sadness).

Although Beatty agrees with the analysis of Ecclesiastes -- that man's efforts to find/create a humanly wisdom will ultimately fail; Beatty is unable to offer a solution to the problem other than a kind of weak and bland humanism. Clearly, Beatty doesn't represent Bradbury's world view, but Beatty is one of the richest and most sympathetic "villians" I can recall reading. Bradbury makes him compelling and interesting, and when he dies, I have always felt the loss. There is something to Beatty.

If Bradbury doesn't take a "follow the Lord" solution (as offered in the end of Ecclesiastes), what does Bradbury offer in F451 to resolve the problem of the deficiency of human wisdom?

In looking at the novel, I would suggest that the solutions seem to be embodied in Clarisse, Faber, Montag and the "forest people" who become books (stored human memory). (1) There is a love of truth because those truths represent a diversity in man that Bradbury finds both powerful and endearing. (2) Each of these players shows an ability to love others and to have a passion for truth and life that I think represents Bradbury's answer to the question offered in Ecclesiastes -- where do we find meaning in a world where everything appears to be vanity? I think, in this book, Bradbury's solution is in learning, passion and love.

Well, that's my take, anyway.

--Mr. Dark

P.S. Nard's comment that Ecclesiastes may have "sounded good" may have more merit than it would appear. Bradbury is called a poet for a lot of reasons, and one of them is that the language "sounds" or "feels" good in Bradbury. I remember seeing/reading interviews with Lennon and McCartney about their lyrics. They said sometimes the lyrics mean something, but sometimes the words just sounded good with the music, and that's why they picked them. Perhaps Nard is on to something here?