I�ve been thinking about this for about a month now, turning it over in my mind. A while back there was a post to cast the leads in a F451 remake. I have a different idea. What if it was animated? Some (emphasis on some) of the animation coming from Japan is simply amazing from an artistic standpoint. Animation, I think, could come closer than traditional film to achieving the feel of the book. I�m curious to know what you think about this.

I think sometimes animation can do great things. "Waking Life" was a really interesting animated film that came out last year (maybe two years ago now). It was animated and went through various philosophical interpretations of life. I really enjoyed it.

Part of the strength of F451 for me is that the story is so "real". For me an animated version of F451 would diminish it's impact. It is a real warning about real dangers. Animation works for me in fantasy and in analogy; but F451 would impact me more fully were it a film rooted in a realistic portrayal of the characters and story.

Part of the reason the F451 film only worked partly for me was that I couldn't relate to the world/society depicted in this film. Everything was so foreign to my own experience, that I felt like I was watching something pretend. When they re-do F451, I want to feel like I'm participating in something real.

This is all pretty subjective, though, so I'm not slamming the idea. To work for me, it would have to be a pretty phenomenal application of animation.

I guess an example for me is the Lord of the Rings. I absolutely love the Peter Jackson movies. But the animated Hobbit they tried years earlier . . . it just didn't work for me.

Hmm. You make a good point. I was thinking that animation could visually show some of the things like books as pigeons, or show the mechanical hound without resorting to computer graphics. I agree it would have to be really good animation, and not the stuff of kid�s cartoons. Over in Japan, animation is treated just like traditional film, and I think the U.S. may be just on the verge of accepting animation as a legitimate medium.
I found an example of what animation can do here: http://www.intothematrix.com
Try going to �The Second Renaissance� part 1. It�s a rather large file, so if you have a slow connection you may not want to watch it. Another good example of the potential of animation is Spirited Away.

But don't you think today's special effects are good enough to show the books as pigeons and the mechanical hound, without looking too fake? Think of all the special effects used in the two Lord of the Rings movies so far. I thought they were so well done, you couldn't tell where the computer generated characters and scenes picked up and the real ones left off. There are some disappointments, such as Harry Potter flying during the Quidditch match, which was so phony looking it was distracting, but for the most part, I think it can be pulled off today. I love animation for some things, but as Mr. Dark said, part of the beauty of this book is the possibility that it could one day really happen, so I think real humans are preferable for this classic.

Epsilon:

When the narrator said that the machines had a right to rebel because the '...machines were endowed with the very spirit of man...' I figured we're off to somewhere wrong. And violent, for voyeur's sake. Then, there is a market for everything and anything under the sun, as each generation comes on the scene,. unaware of the effects of unlearned history.

Would have loved to see an Orson Wells direct a 'Fahrenheit'. The first 'Lord of The Rings' was more arcade game than substance... Bet the Coen Brothers would do a mighty job. As to fusing animation and real images...Hmm? As always, it depends in whose hands the project is placed... Personally, movies as we know them will alter dramatically in the next 25 years or less. For instance, we will hardly be happy with flat images. That's just a start into a world that demands to be increasingly sophisticated and place-worthy with real things. Should the two learn increasingly from each other, a new segment of populace, far beyond mimicry, will evolve...

[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 09-14-2003).]

I understand your criticism Nard. I meant the link to show what animation could do visually, especially not looking flat and cartoon-ish.

My thought was that instead of hyper-realism, animation could show the ideas in the book, giving it a more stylistic look.

I suppose whatever the medium, I'd love to see a good remake. I think our society needs it.

Epsilon:

Do you really think heavy-duty, mind-exercising, thought provoking, realistic adventure set in an animation context would be 'marketable'? I think it would have to be Earth changing for it to work...

Or we could turn everybody into furry little animals and... well, at least that would fit in kinda with the robot 'hyperdermic dog'...Otherwise, Faber could be a sort of a nice ol' Bloodhound, like from Lady and the Tramp. Montag could be a earnest but confused Collie. And.... Oh, oh... think I'm losing it now... Sorry!!

I don't know. I think Epsilon makes an interesting point. Not all animation is Disney/fluffy. The Gollum character in the Lord of the Rings films is animated. Much of the sequencing in the Matrix films is animation.

What I'm personally interested in, with a remake of F451, is a very realistic visual. For example, I liked the tone of the look in the Minority Report film with Tom Cruise.

Epsilon,
I like your idea. An innovative blend could be dazzling.

Also, like Mr. Dark, I thought Minority Report was done extremely well as I commented in earlier posts (except for the movie's ending).

Talking animation according to the lines of the Gollum character in Lord of the Rings, is something far removed from what comes to mind with the term 'animation'. Union Bank did a bunch of spot ads on TV using this kind of "animation" and it was both creepy and endearing and something you had to watch.

Unrelated note:
What I heard that makes me a little queezy...
There is something going on in Washington to permit a floodgate of mediocrity to open to the cable and airwaves. Access channels, where anyone can buy a little time slot to put on anything they want, no matter how good or awful... will be broadened by this legislation to increase the channels multifold...All the bad writing, all the bad books, all the bad and mediocre articles in mediocre magazine, will now have a counterpart on TV. Maybe some good, I know, but for the most part, from what I have already observed on these channels, embarassingly bad...and downright awful! But I guess for those putting the stuff on, it doesn't really matter, good or bad, it's 'on' and that matters...and the TV station owners are paid!

If you see and hear the promo for the upcoming fall sitcom(!?)- below, you will be in total agreement with Nard. I happened to catch it the other night and was amazed to what lows we have stooped in what might be considered prime time "home entertainment!"

A few more wall screens, cousins? The White Clown is on!!

My very few hours of watching per week are diminishing as I type!

Phew: http://epguides.com/Coupling_US/
click the program title, then "Plot Summary"


[This message has been edited by fjpalumbo (edited 09-15-2003).]

Since this is in the 'Fahrenheit 451' post topic, I think it'd be okay to talk about the stuff we see on TV.

fjpalumbo: Yep, the worst is yet to come!

For those who have never heard of Newton Minnow, check out the web site denoted below. Minnow considered TV with the potential of being a whole lot of nothing in time.
Read his speech below.

Myself, I completely gave up TV in 1971, actually watched 'nothing' until 1979, and was really surprised how tacky it had gotten. Now I'm talking 1979!
Then, watched nothing until 1984, specifically the 1984 World Olympics , held in Los Angeles, after attending session in the daytime. Then nothing until the World Series from a restaurant TV in 1988; and then bought a TV in 1994. Believe me. I missed NOTHING all those years. Now, It's gotten so bad that you really have to have selected programs pre-determined. I tuned in the Conan O'Brien 10th year anniversary last night and could hardly believe this stuff was on TV, on NBC. I watched something for a few minutes and started to laugh, but it's a laugh that screams right back at you, "Hey!, you're making a fool out of yourself by laughing at this junk". And I thought to myself, this Conan fellow is really a sick individual. Shrewd businessman, creative fellow, but somethings wrong inside the wrappings.

Maybe some great Phoenix will arise from the ashes of our displays of demented expression. But until then....

For the Newton Minnow speech:
http://www.janda.org/b20/news%20articles/vastwastland.htm

[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 09-15-2003).]

Maybe this is getting a bit off-topic, however....

I think most people would agree that network television is in a pretty sorry state right now. The lineup seems to include one low-brow, vulgar, tasteless programme after another. Still, there are a few good shows on, and it is up to the viewer to single these out. I have very fond memories of three of my all-time favourite drama shows--"Homefront," "The Road to Avonlea," and "Wind at My Back." These may not have been ratings blockbusters, but they did air, so you can't discount the quality of all television shows in one fell swoop.

And when it comes right down to it, in some ways television is better now than it has ever been. Oh, I think that most network shows are garbage, but you have to keep in mind that the three networks (or is it four, or five now?!) comprise a very tiny segment of what is available. Think of all the stations available on a basic satellite hook-up. (For the argument, ignore the many movie channels, and focus on those stations that feature made-for-television fare.) Think of the history channels, or the Discovery/National Geographic channels, etc., etc.... (I can't resist the shows on ancient civilisations...) I even enjoy some of the sillier offerings, like "Trading Spaces" on the Learning Channel!

There are tons of great programmes out there--intelligent, enlightening--that don't bow down to the lowest common denominator. It's just up to us to find them, and not to support the worst that television has to offer. If you include all these other stations in a summing-up of the variety that television has to offer, I would say the ratio of good programmes to bad is much higher now than it was back in the time that all television shows came directly from the three networks...

First of all - Nard, you gave me goosebumps when you fantasized about an Orson production of Fahrenheit 451. I would Love to find a parallel universe where that happened. It also got me to thinking that a black and white film would probably still be best for the story. It would be great to see a bold and daring film maker produce and direct Farenheit 451 using only cameras, film, sound equipment, and technology (right down to makeup and costuming techniques)available at, say, the early fifties - the time of publication of the book

Greentown:

Should 'Fahrenheit 45'1 be backed by
those who have a profound understanding of the book, they may well produce a masterpiece. What that would truly be like, I don't know.
But surely there are few more sickening things than those who see all their money that they trusted in all their life go down the drain or waste away on something shiny, and thus become fully disillusioned with life. The quality and truth of a completed work, not money, must restrain the breakdown.
Fahrenheit, must fall into gifted hands of the artist, and into the lives of once-in-a-life-time-gifted-actors....And to hell with keeping an eye on the potential earnings at the box office....