I have recently became a big fan of Ray Bradbury, and am currently reading through his books. I read F451 in highschool for english class, but really got more out of it reading it again when i was 20. I really enjoyed Death is a Lonely Business also. If anyone would love to discuss Stephen King i am always up for that. I am slowly but surely making my way through all of his work, and would like to do so with bradbury as well. Also i would suggest anyone to read "A Stranger in a Strange Land" by Robert Heinlein.

Loved "Stranger in a Strange Land". Can't really go wrong with Robert Heinlein. One of my first books was "Starship Trooper" by Heinlein. The idea of government there was that you were not a citizen until you gave two years of you life to volunteer service to government (military, peace corp type stuff, teaching, etc.). I mentioned this to my dad and we talked about theories of government, etc. He pulled down Plato's "The Republic" and challenged me to read that. Bradbury got me going on reading, and reading continued to open doors for me my whole life.

If you like him, you may want to try Harlin Ellison, Robert Silverberg, and Theodore Sturgeon.

The thing with Stephen King is this....

In every novel I've read by him a completely innocent person dies, and usually a horrible death. It's often a child and many times he'll kill off his most interesting or coolest character. He does love to kill...And rape... And maim.

Let the comparisons to Bradbury cease. So, Stephen King was influenced by Ray Bradbury. That's as far as it should ever go.

Bradbury is intrigued by what lurks in the shadows where as King, while obsessed with the same kind of suspense and wonder, feels it necessary to rape you at the same time.

It's a matter of class.

Stephen King must have been molested or beaten or locked in the cellar(perhaps all three) as a child, because much of the stuff he has written reeks of child abuse.

I'm sorry if I hit a nerve with anybody, I'm also a survivor. I can smell it too. I think any form of media should come with a rape disclaimer or warning when it includes such material or references.

Sometimes it helps to talk about it, which is what I think Stephen King has been doing since CARRIE and SALEM'S LOT.

[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-22-2004).]

In my previous post perhaps I revealed more about myself than I should have, perhaps it was MY nerve that was hit.

Ray Bradbury took me away from my "situation" and gave me hope, humanity, understanding and a sense of wonder and innocence which never had been provided to me by anybody else. I was one of the youngest to discover and adopt Uncle Ray, the uncle I never had, not because I was the best reader, but because I NEEDED HIM!

I am forever indebted to you Uncle Ray.

Basketball helped too. I think.



[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-22-2004).]

grasstains,

while I understand your point of view, and your personal point of contact with what you dislike in King's work, don't you find that there is usually some redemption (or at least relief) at the end?

I'm reminded of all the people (interviewers mainly) who always assumed Robert Bloch would be a nasty man, who were shocked to meet him and discover a pleasant, gentle, humorous character. With Bloch, with Hitchcock, with King, there is a tendency to put someone through the wringer in order to take the viewer/reader through a catharsis.

Bradbury's early work used to do many of these same things. "Skeleton" is about as invasive a horror story as I can imagine. "The Playground" is pretty horrific, too, about a diferent kind of child abuse. George Slusser identified this as a defining characteristic of early Bradbury - but connected it to the idea that through the pain and suffering someone would become "the elect". But Bradbury's elect arguably had a more twisted redemption even than in King's stories. What about that guy in "The Scythe", for instance?

I suppose Bradbury's body of work is broader, and has certainly moved on from this kind of thing, but what a diminished body of work it would be if his weird tales had never existed.

- Phil
www.bradburymedia.co.uk

I've read OCTOBER COUNTRY and I realize and acknowlegded in my earlier post how King was influenced by Bradbury, but RB never sodomized anyone with a gun. What befell RB's protaganists was a far cry from the kind of torture SK puts his protagonists(and readers) through.

Once again, there should be some kind of warning on the cover of books or theatre posters letting the public know beforehand of child abuse, rape, sodomy, or molestation content, situations, or referances. We can deal with this crap in support groups, not have it sprung upon us or thrown in our faces unannounced in public.

King and Bradbury are two different writers; I'm not sure you can even compare the two, other than by how much their fans love each writer's stories. I absolutely love King's books, but I also love everything I've read by Bradbury.

Mr. Dark, I enjoyed both those books you mentioned by Heinlein. My son, though, was HIGHLY disappointed by Starship Troopers because he'd seen the movie (which was VERY loosely based on the book!) first. Read Plato's Republic in college; think I still have it, too, since I kept just about every college textbook and novel! I came to the conclusion that Plato had no answers, just lots more questions!

I loved King's early work, The Shining, The Stand, The Dead Zone, but most of all the story collection Night Shift and his 'study' Dance Macabre. I think I dropped him after Firestarter, which was like 120 pages of solid good writing and 300 more rubbish--and way too reminiscent of Carrie. Haven't touched him since, but am intrigued by The Tommyknockers and It.

Korby, there was no shower scene in the Starship Troopers book, as there was in the movie. Perhaps it was not juicy enough after the film.

I think Plato raises a lot of questions (as does any good philosopher), but see much value in it (that's why I teach it!). The depth and order of thought helps us understand the issues better, helps us be open to multiple perspectives, helps us identify new solutions, and helps us weed out bad thinking. A lot of questions in philosophy, but I find the questions to be very, very valuable.

Mr. Dark,

I think the only thing the movie Starship Troopers and the book had in common were the title! If I recall, the book spent much more time on the soldiers' time, rather than on fighting the big bugs. Very little action in the book, at least of the kind you saw in the movie.
I only took philosophy because I had to and Plato sounded the most interesting to me! I still remember the "what is virtue" discussion we had in class! It does make you think, though, something I don't always want to do!

Gothic, try reading his Dark Tower books (of which there are 7); those are quite different from his early works - even though the first Tower book came out in 1980. The Stand (the expanded version) is probably my all-time favorite book; certain parts still can make me cry or feel really good.

Korby,

TOMMYKNOCKERS is quite muddled as it was written at the heighth of his cocaine addiction. It does make for interesting reading, if you keep that in mind.

I gave him up after reading THE STAND(unedited version)-1993. He had 400-500 pages which were left out of the original because his publisher told him in producing a book of that size it would bring the price of the book to around $20.00, and "nobody's willing to pay that much for a book", that was in 1978. I think it's something like 1140 pages. Took me a whole summer to read it. The 1993 version is a great tale loaded with really good characters and full of sacrafice and redemption. But, if rape affects you then don't read it. I've never read the original.

grasstains,

Tommyknockers was just plain weird to me! I can't say that I love EVERYTHING he's put out, but I have read everything I could find! I have both versions of the Stand; I prefer the later version because there's a lot more background with some of the characters. I can usually polish off his books within a couple of days (I have a hard time putting down I book I REALLY like...one more chapter!), although I've been trying to restrain myself on authors I really enjoy, to make the pleasure of the story last longer! King usually goes to the bottom of my to-be-read pile, of which there are now 11 books! That'll keep me busy for a few weeks! Of course, I'm going to need more bookcases, soon, and I'm running out of room in the family room/library to put them!

I'm constantly fighting the shelf space war, myself. I recently decided to trade-in for credit several Heinlein books which at the time I purchased them I didn't realize were part of an ongoing saga which consisted of something like 7 books(the Lazarus Long stories) commonly referred to as part of "The Heinlein Timeline".

[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-23-2004).]

"Stranger in a Strange Land" is great. I'm reading it right now. The uncut version. I've never read the original version, but apparently the uncut has around 60,000 more words that were cut from the manuscript. I'm not sure how different it is, but I know I like it.

A lot of people have said that Heinlein's later work(after 1966ish) really lacked proper editing and every novel he wrote during that period could have shaved off at least 100 pages of useless grandstanding, tech stuff, or bloated dialogue.

"STRANGER" was just prior to that period and perhaps at that time he did have someone editing his work and what you are now reading is that extra 100 pages of fluff.

I reccomend you STOP! And read the original NOW!

Personally, I really liked Jubal's(Heinlein's) soapbox speeches and wouldn't mind another 100 pages of bloated dialogue from him.

[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-23-2004).]