Just wondering this: After Fahrenheit 451, what is considered to be the next greatest Bradbury of all time?....This isn't suppose to be what your opinion, I'm really asking objectivley, like what is considered by most critics to be the next greatest. Thanks-Bob121235-

That's a difficult question, but I think that the Ray Bradbury book that has received the most critical acclaim, after FAHRENHEIT 451, is DANDELION WINE.

That's probably true- on an objective (and definitely on a personal as well) level.
I think that Bradbury's short story output is so prolific, that it's probably tough for critics and the like to hold anything above anything else.
Maybe the Martian Chronicles, as well...

That's a good question. It may be that the majority of literary critics would place "Dandelion Wine" second. By the way, I'm part of a group on this board that is going to read "Dandelion Wine" in June. (I haven't read it since high school.)

I have seen a lot of critics tie the "Martian Chronicles" into F451 -- tying together style and themes in a way that would keep "Martian Chronicles" pretty high up on that critical ladder in terms of the works of Bradbury that are critical to understanding his fundamental work.

Part of answering the question involves asking two questions: (1) Which crtics? (2) What criteria are they using in their assessments?

I think critics within the field of traditional literature would probably rank "Dandelion Wine" pretty high in the Bradbury canon; but it seems that critics writing in the field of SciFi would rank "Martian Chronicles" highly.

One of the fundamental areas of evaluating a writer is to see what kind of influence his work has had on others. I see "Dandelion Wine" as beautifully written, but not as originating a style. It follows the styles of Sherwood Anderson's "Winesburg, Ohio" and Hemingway's, "In Our Time". In other words, I think one would be hard pressed to place "Dandelion Wine" as a work that creates a new style; but rather, it is a great work that fits into an existing literary pattern.

Also, because "Dandelion Wine" is outside the scope of the type of fiction Bradbury is famous for (Fantasy and SciFi), I see references in critical writing to "Martian Chronicles" and to his futuristic short stories far more frequently than references to "Dandelion Wine".

None of this is to diminish "Dandelion Wine's" stature as a great work of art, or as a work recognized as being of critical importance.

My personal opinion (which the thread's originator specifically asked us to avoid) is that a few years down the road -- as more critics and a wider public become familiar with it -- "Dark Carnival" will work its way up the ranks and end up as one of Bradbury's most important works. In these stories, Bradbury's voice impacts the way science fiction is written. This is always a fundamental sign of a work that is great in the canon of any given writer. I believe "Dark Carnival" -- more than any of this other works -- influenced the way other writers (at least in the fields of fantasy and SciFi) wrote. Dark Carnival clearly represented a new voice.

In terms of books that introduced readers to Bradbury, while "Dandelion Wine" was the first read for some on these pages; I would suggest that "F451", "Martian Chronicles", "Something Wicked This Way Comes", and various short stories, represent most persons' introductions to the works of Bradbury.


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 05-13-2003).]

It may have been an exaggeration to say "Dark Carnival" impacted the way SciFi was written as a universal, but it is not an exaggeration to say that it introduced a new voice to the genre.

One of the things I enjoyed about SciFi "back in the day" was the diversity of the "voices" offered.

Even within that diverse writing pool, however, Bradbury's "voice" was unique and easily recognizable. It was both poetic, startling, humanistic and philosophical. Perhaps in the inclusion of these kinds of focus on his stories, he did influence the writing of others.

Bradbury was able to mix the macabre into seemingly normal settings. He created human emotion in story types that had previously been a bit too focused on technology and had lost the human element. One writer indicated Bradbury introduced the idea of philosophical and moral SciFi.

This mixture is clearly in "Dark Carnival" with a focus on the macabre. The mixture is also clearly in "Martian Chronicles" with a focus on philosophy and the impact of change on mankind (as individuals -- not just as a generic group).


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 05-13-2003).]

Mr. Dark, I read "Winesburg, Ohio," and was totally and completely unimpressed with it in comparison to "Dandelion Wine." Do "In Our Time" and "Spoon River Anthology" compare any better?

Mr Dark,
I agree with you that Dark Carnival will become the sign post of a Bradbury work of fiction. I first came across his stories in The October Country, probably in the late fifties while I was in High School, which was a recompilation of many of the stories in Dark Carnival and had wider circulation. I will never forget my first reading of "The Dwarf". I knew I had found a very special writer to follow and enjoy. It is amazing to me now, looking back over forty years, how many of Ray's truly memorable stories are listed in Dark Carnival and The October Country: "The Lake", which Ray has said was his first great piece of writing, "The Jar", "The Emissary", " The Small Assassin", and of course, "Homecoming".

I am set to attend the opening of The October Country May 31, put on by Ray Bradbury's Pandemonium Theatre Company, directed by Charles Rome Smith, at Theatre West in LA. The three plays are to be: "The Jar", "Cistern" and "Banshee" (not from the original October Country, but from The Toynbee Convector Collection). It should be a great night of vintage Bradbury.

"Winesburg, OH" is widely recognized as one of the great American literary classics, which introduced the genre of short stories thematically and chronologically tied together. I enjoyed the book, myself.

Hemingway's "In Our Time" contains some stories of real power that are tied by themes of violence and existentialist sensitivities. The story, "The End of Something" is one of the best relationship stories I've read. The ending of the relationship in that story is simply because, "...it isn't fun anymore". The symbolism at the beginning of this very short story is so powerful, it is almost heavy handed -- but not quite. "Big, Two-Hearted River" is packed with symbolism as an effort to regain his bearings, by a character who has been "burned out" by war. An absolutely great story. The story, "Indian Camp" is one of the great stories of disillusionment. When I go through the elements of these stories in class, my students are amazed at the depth represented in these apparently simple stories.

I've never read "Spoon River Anthology", nor do I remember reading any criticism on it. So I can't comment on that one at all.

It has been years since I've read Spoon River Anthology, but what I do recollect doesn't compare favorably with Dandelion Wine. While they may be loosely tied together thematically, it is almost a case of comparing apples and oranges.

Spoon River was innovative for its day (see Mr. Dark's comment regarding innovating a style), but I don't know that it stands the test of time - a key element when considering the potential of any great work.

Impact-Wise, it's gotta be "The Martian Chronicles". Turned science fiction on its head, and was called the book that brought SF (or Sci-Fi, if you wish) to maturity.

I haven't read Winesburg, but I really loved In Our Time, which was the first Hemingway I read. It's been a while and I don't have a copy here for reference, but specifically liked Indian Camp, Big Two Hearted River, plus the other story where Nick Adams is a young boy (it focuses on his parents' relationship and I can't think of the title...). The short vignettes that interspace the larger chapters is another influence on Dandelion Wine, perhaps.

Spoon River, I've always seen it as almost a direct contrast to Dandelion Wine. I liked it, and the interlocking eulogy style was kind of like assembling a jigsaw puzzle as you read. But where Dandelion Wine mythologized and elevated the rituals of small-town life, Masters broke open that image and laid bare the people under his hill as liars, victims, adulterers, and swindlers- no different from in the "big city". There were some people in Spoon River who were good sorts, but they were in the minority. The whole postumous narrative thing kind of gave me the heebie-jeebies, either way.
As far as theme goes, I think Dandelion Wine has more in common with Our Town, than Spoon River, if anything.

Dan B-

Its interesting that you should mention Our Town, as that play also occurred to me as I was reflecting further on the thread.

Our Town mirrors many of themes from Dandelion Wine. Wilder tries to convey the point that as we go through life, often we fail to appreciate things around us and miss the importance of (seemingly) inconsequential events taking place. Much like Bradbury, he seems to be arguing that life should be lived with gusto.

I was going to mention "Our Town," justifiably recognized as great (Pulitzer Prize) which I read after seeing the episode of "The Wonder Years" in which Winnie Cooper had the lead in their school play production of it. Did you see that? It was great! Winnie was having a hard time with the role, but when she said the closing lines my mom remarked, "Those lines are so great she couldn't even spoil them with her delivery." There was sort of a "posthumous" thing going on in "Our Town," with the town's late inhabitants reflecting on life there, but very relevant and not at all morbid. I mentioned Spoon River as Ray was said to have been influenced by it in writing Martian Chronicles. Hemingway was also a particular and formative influence of Ray's. "Look Homeward, Angel," by Thomas Wolfe, is like these works in places but is much more about the inner life of the main character than the interconnected life of the town.