Pterran,
fiction today has plenty to say, except it's all been said before countless times. Hence, I always urge everyone to go for the classics.
Cheers, Translator

ps, Hemingway is one of the best writers ever. I should make a list one day of the best writers I encountered. He would be in to 5 for sure.

Translator,

You're probably right. The classics are the way to go. Guess I'm looking for the thrill of discovering a new writer that really delivers. The classics seldom disappoint. Then again, in 25 or 50 years, others may look at current writers and shake their heads at those of us who failed to see we were living in the time of literary giants. (Reminds me of the scene from the movie Star Trek IV, The Voyage Home, ( I think. The one with the whales. They've traveled back to 20th century earth and Kirk is explaining to Spock about the prevalence of the use of profanity: This is the language used by the writers of the time. Jacqueline Susann, Harold Robbins. Spock nods knowingly: The classics.)

Best,

Pete

Do you think it's simply easier with "classics" cuz all the hard work of weeding out all the bad ones has already been done? You don't have to dig through all of Hemingway's mediocre contemporaries because you already know he's the diamond? Whereas to find today's Hemingway first you gotta sift through the crap and then the New York Times best seller and then Oprah's favorite of the week, etc. etc. to find something that really astonishes. By the way, how long ago does have to have been written to be defined as a classic?

Beiruts wedding:

(1) I forgot to mention that I liked the authors/books you had in your list.

(2) I understand Translator's predilection for the classics and share some of that perspective with him (it may be one of only a handful of things he and I will ever agree on); but it's important to remember that when they were contemporary, they weren't classics. I enjoy reading the "good" stuff today and sorting out what I think is good and in trying to understand why good writing strikes me the way it does. The sorting out makes me a better reader and exposes me to some truly great contemporary literature. It's hard to remember, sometimes, that even F451 found it's first publication as a serialized novel in Playboy -- hardly the forum of the established classics.

Beirut Wedding,

Excellent point about the weeding out process and classics. The marketplace of ideas at work.

Mr. Dark,

As always, you earn my admiration. I used to be able to read like you do but find more and more I lack the patience to give contemporary authors a chance. Too many times I�ve sifted through a couple hundred pages of tripe to come up with nothing.

I�ll grudgingly admit there�s some nuggets to be found. I�ve mentioned a contemporary author or two I�ve found worthy of my time and effort. I guess it�s true though: 95% of most art, no matter the medium, is garbage.

(My I�m in a crusty mood tonight!)

Best,

Pete

Well, I'm not unselective. I look at the author's background, book reviews, publishing houses, interviews of scholars discussing books, etc. So I narrow the field a bit. I also stand in bookstores and check out the back/jacket for story lines or characters I find interesting, then read a chapter or two in the store. Usually, before I buy a book, I have a pretty good idea of whether or not it's going to be worth the investment of my time. It's not totally random. I also look at quality films made from novels, and check out some of those books. That's how I discovered Nick Hornby -- one of my favorite contemporary writers. You know, I also look at who has won the Pulitzer and Nobel in the last few years and then "cluster" read them. I like to take an author and read two to four representative books in a row from a him or her to see how his/her characters or stories or philosophical ideas carry and/or differ from book to book. Then also, students have recommended books in class that have turned out to be good.

Translator: We also agree on Hemingway. I love his work.

Mr Dark,
it is an enjoyable experiance to be in agreement with you; it feels like some wildly oscillating planets have finally alinged in the line of sight. I especially like "the Sun Also Rises". One of the best written books I have ever read (of course all his other ones are masterpieces as well. I once went on a Hemingway binge and read everything he wrote in 4 weeks).

Beirut, once again, I share your point of view to a dot. It's all about weeding out the mediocre writers to reveal the gems (time). Some good writers have been forgotten, though (or at least are not as popular), and it's an experiance that rivals the one I mentioned above when you read a play, for example, by some obscure 19th century plawright, and find is equal to what the well-known giants gave us.
Cheers, Translator

I also like "The Sun Also Rises" The romantic in me still loves Hemingway's ability to look at the absurdity of war and love's ability to transcend it -- while not conquering it, in "A Farewell to Arms". I also love, love, love, love "In Our Time" and the Nick Adams Stories, collected in another book. I think Hemingway is one of history's supreme masters of the short story.

Woah, you all are a lot more scientific about it than I am. I read "CHILDREN OF THE ALLEY" cuz it was a cool title. I read "KA" by Roberto Calasso and "BAD BEHAVIORr" by Mary Gaitskill cuz they had beautiful covers. "TENT OF MIRACLES" was another one where it just looked interesting. "GEEK LOVE" was another one where I just dug the title. I've been burned a few times, of course, but I would venture to toss any of the others in the "potential classics" circle.

[This message has been edited by Beirut Wedding (edited 07-29-2004).]

Translator and Mr. Dark,

Man, I�d never thought I�d address a post in this manner, let alone on a subject with which you two agree. Next thing you know, pigs�ll fly, hell will freeze over, and the lion will lie with the lamb. . .

I�ll go with In Our Time and The Sun Also Rises as H�s best work. A Farewell to Arms comes second for me only because it follows these others. Re-reading it recently, I recall a passage or two that got a little windy and fell short of the legendary Hemingway style. And, though the ending is powerful, I�ve come to shrug it off: Why not have Catherine live? Because it doesn�t suit the message H was trying to send. I�ve heard it said that H is the master of the dying fade � The Sun is the best example � but Farewell�s ending feels forced to me now.

Old Man and the Sea is next for me. Followed by For Whom the Bell Tolls, though it has traces of influence from the Left that would permeate much of the work that came from the 30s. Just about all of his short stories work for me.

Posthumous work? Islands in the Stream has a sentimental place in my heart but somewhat flawed. The Garden of Eden is a brave book, one that, if it had been published in his lifetime, would have cemented H�s reputation as a risk-taker, something I think he was faulted unfairly for when compared to, say, Faulkner. True at First Light I found dull and ureadable. Ditto The Dangerous Summer. Don�t bother with his poetry. Read his letters for an unvarnished look at the man and his times. His non-fiction not only shows his roots as a reporter, he was a pretty good one to boot.

Best,

Pete

I loved "Islands in the Stream", and did enjoy "The Garden of Eden". The film "Islands in the Stream" with George Scott, I thought was good.

I think if Translator and I were to meet and refuse to discuss politics, I would find him fascinating. In the early days, when we posted more on Bradbury and literature, I think Translator would be able to add real value to the discussions. I don't disrespect him -- but we certainly disagree on politics.

Pete:

I think I ran into the quote you were originally referring to:

"...it's [science fiction] the most important fiction ever invented, it always has been. People haven't given it credit. Becuase it has to do with the histry of ideas. Of dreaming an idea, birthing an idea, blueprinting and idea, making it into a fact. And then moving on the the next idea." (p. 126

--Conversations with Ray Bradbury. Ed. Steven Aggelis. University Press of Mississippi, Jackson. 2004.

Mr. Dark,

Always on the ball. Thanks for that quote. That's what I was referring to. I think this definition actually encompasses a lot of fiction, not necessarily the hardcore, nuts and bolts, hi-tech kind of sci-fi. It's the exploring of new ideas that I find intriguing. Or, I should say, the exploring of ideas and problems and answers to problems. What I can't tolerate is an author positing an idea or problem and then not taking a stand because, well, sometimes in real life, things just don't work out. This is fiction! Not real life! It's supposed to work out, in some way!

Going back to Hemingway. . .

I'm with you about the movie version of Islands in the Stream. It's hard for me, though, to seperate my personal feelings and experience from the movie. After my parents divorced, my brother and I would spend summers in Florida with my father. While he wasn't an artist, our re-unions and departures were fraught with the same mixed emotions presented in the movie. I've never seen another movie, or piece of fiction, that presented that situation so honestly. I'll admit to this sensitivity but imagine my surprise when I caught the last half of the movie not too long ago on TCM or AMC. Surprisingly, the movie holds up quite well. I believe it's one of George C. Scott's finer, and overlooked, performances.

Best,

Pete

Pete: I agree. I also think the novel is under-rated, and my prediction is that as time passes, "Islands in the Stream" will move up in the Hemingway pantheon of stories. I agree that that book captured the emotions well -- of the man and his ex-wife, also. Some of the language is stunning, and the portrayal as work being the means by which he overcomes the vacuous state of his life is very powerful, also.