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quote:
Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
quote:
Originally posted by embroiderer:
I should need a psychiatrist instead, you say?
No, I didn't. I said what used to be seen as demons are now seen as psychological issues in the light of modern medicine.


___ Well, some are, of course. And some are not! Doug Spaulding refuses to make the distinction. Like that fellow Bill Maher, who tramples faith as best as he can into a pulverized dust of nonsense, Spaulding is stuck in one mind set that looks only where there is no semblance of God's intervention, scripturally speaking. Doug Spaulding speaking? Oh yes, there is some there.



 
Posts: 624 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 27 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil Knox:
And some are not! Doug Spaulding refuses to make the distinction.

Well, of course - we're not living in the dark ages!


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6904 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:

Well, of course - we're not living in the dark ages!


Well then, why are you?
 
Posts: 162 | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Ah, here's a charming little story...

The small African country of Uganda is currently considering legislation which allows for the execution of gay people, and a sentence of three years in prison for any person who knows of a gay person and does not report them to the police within 24 hours.

One of the driving forces behind this legislation is Pastor Martin Ssempa, who has had numerous appearances hosted by American mega-church leader Rick Warren. Indeed, Warren support has been in part responsible for Ssempa's ascendency to power.

And yet, when Warren was asked his opinion of the "kill gays" bill, he refused to denounce it and said "The fundamental dignity of every person, our right to be free, and the freedom to make moral choices are gifts endowed by God, our creator. However, it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations.”

Hmmmm, really? According to Wikipedia, In 2005, Time magazine reported that Warren had been asked by Rwandan President Paul Kagame to help his country become a “Purpose-Driven nation”.[1] To implement this, Warren has enlisted over 2,000 Saddleback Church members to go to Rwanda in small groups to initiate a national strategy, and the cooperation of 600 Rwandan churches. Business leaders and leaders of parliament in Rwanda are also involved.

Warren also certainly gave vocal support to the war in Iraq.

Doesn't sound like he is all that reluctant "to comment or interfere" in the affairs of other nations as a rule---only in this latest case. I'm totally disgusted by this sort of hypocrisy.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: theoctobercountry,
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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"Well, of course - we're not living in the dark ages!"

Ah, but that's just the problem, Doug---a lot of people ARE living in the dark ages, as evidenced by my previous post.

That the mess in Uganda is being promoted and funded by the right wing American "Christian" group "The Family" (which includes prominent politicians) just adds to my disgust with the whole affair.
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by theoctobercountry:

I'm totally disgusted by this sort of hypocrisy.


Having met Rick Warren on a number of occasions, and arranged his meeting with Ray Bradbury a while ago, I can say pretty much you don't know what the heck your talking about. Really!

What the media picks up and runs with is insane. If you think this is interfering with another country, then put the Roman Catholic Church on your list, and all the evangelical churches, and the Lutherans, and, well...why don't you just put ALL the churches on your list. Since most all churches have missionaries and church builders in most all other nations and countries, let's start kicking all their butts. You start!!

Last night at Saddleback Church, (I missed it because of health problems) the church was filled as I understand, with supporters of those fighting Aids all over the world. Rick Warren has implemented the health of the top Homosexual leaders in the world, to help the fight.

His involvement with churches does not stand just with Rwanda. He has enlisted the help of Presidents Clinton, Bush and Obama, as well as Presidents and leaders of many other countries, to involve churches and crate new churches all over the world as Hospitals. Yes, medical clinics and hospitals. That's a whole 'nother story.

Basically, you are totally off base in your posting. I don't presently have the energy to responding you on each line of your post. You do the work instead, pal! All the info on everything they do is posted on the Saddleback Church website, including videos many past weekend services and videos of Rick Warren's preaching. Hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Go to their website and submit a question to them yourself:

http://www.saddleback.com
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: South Orange County, CA USA | Registered: 28 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nard, once again you've not directly addressed the specific statements which I posted.

My point was not whether American churches have a presence in foreign countries---of course they do. I was commenting upon a direct quote by Warren, where he said "it is not my personal calling as a pastor in America to comment or interfere in the political process of other nations." He also said "As a pastor, my job is to encourage, to support. I never take sides."

However, you yourself know the record shows that Warren has very often been involved with the inner workings of other countries, and he has very often "taken a side." This is a direct contradiction to his latest quotes---which makes him both a hypocrite and a liar.

This very much reminds me of the situation a few months ago when he baldly stated "I am not an anti-gay marriage activist."---when he in fact had previously made a video encouraging his supporters to overturn marriage equality in California.

Even more reprehensible than the hypocrisy, in my mind, is his refusal to condemn the wholesale extermination of gay people in Uganda. Martin Ssempa, one of the key figures fighting for the passage of this legislation, is a protégé of Warren and a man of whom Warren's wife has said "You are my brother, Martin, and I love you." No surprise, then, to know that Warren has declined to say a word against the proposed annihilation of the entire gay population of Uganda. And frankly, it's disgusting.

As for "doing my research"? There has been extensive research done on this situation in Uganda, showing exactly how the American religious right has had their hand in this directly from the beginning. I would suggest you do a bit of reading as well.
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was NOT going to mention Warren's work regarding AIDS, but since it was brought up---there is certainly more to the story:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/b...ick-warren-in-africa
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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80%+ BS. Also damned if you do, and damned if you don't! The video in question was strictly given to the Church as a whole, but, of course, got into the media.The church teaches biblical teaching, and a Christian church is supposed to follow scripture. If you listen to the pulpits of Roman Catholic churches, the message is the same. If you go back a thousand years, the message is the same. The trouble is understanding what it exactly says. Homosexuality, fornication, adultery, are all put on the same line in several passages. Why isn't there a big uproar over adultery? I think it has a lot to do with personal bias.

Christianity and the popular culture shall never meet. You know that. Right?
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: South Orange County, CA USA | Registered: 28 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Again, your response does not address the specifics of my previous post.

I assume the video to which you refer is the one where Warren advocated against marriage equality. It does not matter whom he was addressing in this video. He made a statement to the press---direct quote---"I am not an anti-gay marriage activist." Making a video directing his followers to oppose marriage equality DOES qualify one as an anti-gay marriage activist. Put what spin on it you want, he is a liar.

I don't care what one's opinion is of homosexuality---it does not matter a whit in this case. Warren has refused to condemn the state-sanctioned murder of gay people. That is both reprehensible and contemptible, in my book.

Anyone who thinks that it is okay to kill those who do not agree with one's religious viewpoints are sad examples of human beings, in my opinion. Is this just a taste of what we in America could expect, if the theocracy promoted by the religious far right would become a reality?
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is nonsense that Warren has refused to condemn state sponsored gay-killings. What you are saying is, it hasn't been reported in the media his personal feelings about it. Tell you what. I may see him this weekend, possibly Saturday. What exactly, without a long lengthy question, would you want me to ask him? How's that?
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: South Orange County, CA USA | Registered: 28 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The figure is somewhere near 150,000. That's 150,000 killed last year for their Christian faith. Okay. Where's this in the glorious media for all to hear? I'm asking theoctobercountry!



 
Posts: 624 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 27 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
This is nonsense that Warren has refused to condemn state sponsored gay-killings. What you are saying is, it hasn't been reported in the media his personal feelings about it. Tell you what. I may see him this weekend, possibly Saturday. What exactly, without a long lengthy question, would you want me to ask him? How's that?
Pretty simple, really. How about, why doesn't he condemn the notion of execution of the gay population of Uganda, instead of dancing around the question like he has done, insisting that he "doesn't take a stand, doesn't comment on politics" when he has OFTEN taken a stand and commented on politics in the past?

(And example of Warren's not taking a stand: "Whether or not they found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq is beside the point. Saddam and his sons were raping the country, literally. And we morally had to do something.")

Or if you have time, ask him how he feels about the fact that the fellow he fostered and promoted, who his family thought of as a brother, is one of those directly responsible for the situation in Uganda at present? It's outrageous that Warren has not very publicly condemned the very idea of mass murder that Ssempa is advocating. Warren was notably responsible for building up Martin Ssempa’s influence in Uganda, and quite frankly if this ends up as a pogrom against the gay population of Uganda, I hold Warren in large part responsible.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: theoctobercountry,
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Phil Knox:
The figure is somewhere near 150,000. That's 150,000 killed last year for their Christian faith. Okay. Where's this in the glorious media for all to hear? I'm asking theoctobercountry!
Um, why don't you ask someone in the media?

Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand, which is something I've noticed occurring on this thread time and time again. My point in my previous posts has been, it is abhorrent to condone the murder of those who do not agree with one's own religious viewpoints. And that the current situation in Uganda has been directly brought to a head by involvement from American religious groups. And that Rick Warren has a history of doing one thing and saying another. If you wish to challenge any of those statements, by all means do so.
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by theoctobercountry:

Your comment has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand


Oh, tsk tsk, theoctobercountry. Surely you jest? But of course you don't jest.

What's 150,000 Christians being put to death for their faith to you? And by whose hands are these Christians put to death? Why should you care? They mean nothing to you, other than they cause trouble in the world, and the likes of Rick Warrens of the world.

tsk tsk!



 
Posts: 624 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 27 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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