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Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
The planets move around the sun in ellipses because there is a force between any of them and the sun which decreases as the square of the distance. This force is generated by the will of some powerful aliens.

That FORCE is now out of date. Due to Einstein, 'tis the MASS of the objects that causes a warping of the space-time continuum, a deepening well of gravity, that feels like it is attracting any object toward the MASS. The old formulas from Newton work unless one is talking about the very small or the very large then General Relativity must be used. Yes, the Earth sucks big time. And we ARE the aliens.

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Originally posted by Phil Knox:

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Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:

That's really all we need to get along. So I accept you and treat you with the dignity you deserve. The fact that our ideologies are light-years apart has nothing to do with anything.

Dougster, ideologies can have a lot to do with it.

As to why am I here?
Just because I have been a reader of Ray Bradbury for years and truly affected by his works, does not mean I worship the ground he walks on. Some people find him a god of sorts. They hang onto his every word. I draw a line. If not, I'm a nincompoop of sorts. Any reader that gives worship service to any actor, politician, boss, or writer, needs his head examined. Really. I'm talking about psychological consultation. I've seen people go totally over the edge because their idealistic idol has cracks and they can't deal with it because they've taken it so personally.

I love much of Bradbury's writings. I'm not here to poke every flaw he has. But dealing with some of them would be intelligent.

'Tis not that Mr Bradbury is being Worshiped here, is infallible, and our god of words. It is his spirit of adventure, his undeniable positive attitude toward living, his gift of giving to others that spirit to go on against all odds, that we celebrate here. He was, after all, knighted by Mr. Electrico and told that he would "live forever". And so he will, through his children, his stories, and the people who come to know him and his metaphores.
Ray is now forever up there with the likes of Melville, Poe, Dickinson, Clemens, Anderson, and Collier.

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Originally posted by patrask:
Ray is now forever up there with the likes of Melville, Poe, Dickinson, Clemens, Anderson, and Collier.

He's not only amongst their number, he's their president!

Since when are the extreme ends of the spectrum the only two choices available? If there is a lot of room in your mind, there is a lot of room between

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idolizing a person --making them appear to have no flaws or shortcomings and to always be correct

and

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it's that his philosophy of life is about self containment and self glorification. That's our culture today.

with

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The more I read of Bradbury I realize how dangerous a philosphy (sic) he procures and dispenses. We are all drawn in by his mystical prose, but some are lost in an abysmal maze with outlets to grandious (sic) self proclamations of immortality.

Someone else is breaking world jumping records to get to that concatenation of conclusions.

Dandy, my love, sad to say, but the only exercise some of us get is jumping to conclusions!

The swimming back doesn't count.

When it came to paraphrasing Christians, Emerson just said it so much better:

“You sin now; we shall sin by and by; we would sin now, if we could; not being successful, we expect our revenge tomorrow.”

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Originally posted by dragonfly:
When it came to paraphrasing Christians, Emerson just said it so much better:

“You sin now; we shall sin by and by; we would sin now, if we could; not being successful, we expect our revenge tomorrow.”

RW Emerson was a Christian in the sense that Barrack Obama is a Christian. They don't grasp the meaning/experience/reality of Christ in you the hope of glory, the mainstay of redemption.

Ask the Bishop:

Q: I am reading The Jesus Papers, authored by Michael Baigent, and have a question about his suggestion that the crucifixion of Jesus was rigged, that he was drugged to make it appear like he was dead. Upon being speared, blood gushed from his side, which, of course, would not happen with a corpse. Jesus was then treated for the wound and lived. The author claims there is "incontrovertible evidence" that Jesus was alive in AD 45, and that the Roman Catholic Church is guilty of hiding this information along with the evidence denying the divinity of Jesus. I would value your opinion as to the validity and accuracy of this book.

A: Those theories have been around forever and they have little or no credibility. They reappear in new dramatic forms from time to time and people unfamiliar with their history actually treat them seriously. Your source seems to be one of these.

The story about the spear going into Jesus' side at the time of the crucifixion is recorded only in John's gospel, which was written between the years 95-100. That means that nobody seemed to notice this detail until 65-70 years after the crucifixion. Then we discover by the study of John that he has borrowed this detail to put in his narrative from Zechariah 11, which suggests that it never was an event in history, but a means of interpretation used by the author of the Fourth gospel. In the book of Zechariah the prophet writes: "they looked upon him whom they pierced and mourned for him as one mourns for an only child." Those words are not written about Jesus since they were composed in the fifth century before the birth of Jesus. John says, however, that the spear in Jesus' side was a fulfillment of the words of Zechariah.

Your author's "incontrovertible evidence" is absurd and not worthy of further comment. Baloney comes in lots of forms and conspiracy theories have punctuated human history. I would pay no attention to such absolute nonsense.

- John Shelby Spong

I saw Bill Maher's Religulous and I thought it hit home pretty well. Not just one of the world's religions, but all of them, a sorry excuse for the truth. Once you realize that the Christ Story has been around the block for a few thousand years BEFORE CHRIST, it make you wonder why anyone would believe in the story at all. It must hit a universal nerve in us somewhere that causes us to feel better in the assumption that we can be saved, from ourselves, and get to the next level. I have read a lot of things over my lifetime that lead me to believe in the truth of what is presented in this movie. If you are faithful and strongly believe that does not hurt my feelings. But, I think one should consider the alternatives and understand the sources that have been used to compile the story, before you swallow it whole. There is much to laugh at in the movie, and much to cry about as well, that we can be this immature so late in the day. Maybe there is hope for Mankind, maybe not. I especially liked Mr. Maher's final summation. Go see it - it can't hurt your sensibilities to see what is known about the religions of the world and how they can seem so really ridiculous, thus the title of the movie.

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Originally posted by patrask:
I saw Bill Maher's Religulous and I thought it hit home pretty well. Not just one of the world's religions, but all of them, a sorry excuse for the truth. Once you realize that the Christ Story has been around the block for a few thousand years BEFORE CHRIST, it make you wonder why anyone would believe in the story at all.

Hold up, hold up, patrask.

Are you telling me that Religulous, which was supposed to be a harmless comedy poking fun at religions, contained the same "Jesus throughout history" conspiracy theory as the Zeitgeist movie? I've spoken to people who watched the Religulous, and they failed to mention this. I bet the movie didn't mention it at all.

Do you realize that the claims you have affixed yourself to are virtually non-existent? That they are based around sources that do not exist? Do you realize that many of these "sources" come from Aleister Crowley, one of the world's most famous source-forgers, who managed to "translate" the Tao Te Ching without being able to speak or write Chinese?

Please, friend, practice informational hygiene! Think for yourself!

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Originally posted by Doug Spaulding:
Baloney comes in lots of forms and conspiracy theories have punctuated human history. I would pay no attention to such absolute nonsense.

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Originally posted by patrask:
I saw Bill Maher's Religulous and I thought it hit home pretty well. Not just one of the world's religions, but all of them, a sorry excuse for the truth. Once you realize that the Christ Story has been around the block for a few thousand years BEFORE CHRIST, it make you wonder why anyone would believe in the story at all. It must hit a universal nerve in us somewhere that causes us to feel better in the assumption that we can be saved, from ourselves, and get to the next level. I have read a lot of things over my lifetime that lead me to believe in the truth of what is presented in this movie. If you are faithful and strongly believe that does not hurt my feelings. But, I think one should consider the alternatives and understand the sources that have been used to compile the story, before you swallow it whole. There is much to laugh at in the movie, and much to cry about as well, that we can be this immature so late in the day. Maybe there is hope for Mankind, maybe not. I especially liked Mr. Maher's final summation. Go see it - it can't hurt your sensibilities to see what is known about the religions of the world and how they can seem so really ridiculous, thus the title of the movie.

I don't know why you, patrask, make such a fuss about Bradbury. His poetry has been around for centuries before Christ, and his words have been around for thousands of years. From Plato's thought to poets in the middle ages, Shakespeare to Hopkins, before and after.

When you realize that Bradbury prose has been around the block many times thru the generations and centuries, you begin to wonder why anyone would make a big deal about it.

Salamander!
Love it.
Pretty sharp, there, for an amphibian!

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Originally posted by Nico:
...Aleister Crowley, one of the world's most famous source-forgers, who managed to "translate" the Tao Te Ching without being able to speak or write Chinese.

And Joseph Smith translated the golden plates even tho he didn't speak a word of reformed Egyptian!

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Originally posted by patrask:
Once you realize that the Christ Story has been around the block for a few thousand years BEFORE CHRIST...

True enough. Midrash anyone?