I FOUND IT! No, not the story I was thinking of, that's still a mystery, but I learned what Jesus would drive. In a song a gospel group sang at church this morning was the refrain, "You may not see him drivin' the chariot of the Lord, Jesus could be ridin' in a '49 Ford." I turned to the guy nearest and said, "Thank God THAT burning question has been settled."

For those interested in human cloning, two books have recently come out that might be interesting:

(1) "Human Cloning and Human Dignity: The Report of the President's Council on Bioethics." Forward by Leon R. Kass, M.D., Chairman. Public Affairs, NY. This is far more extensive and interesting than I had expected. Because there were areas where they could not reach consenses, parts present opposing positions. This raises issues I would not have come up with in a thousand years.

(2) "Cloning Christ" Peter Senese, with Robert Geis. Orion Publishing and Media, Inc. NY. 2002.

This is a novel. I haven't read it, so I don't know whether or not to recommend it, but for those interested in human cloning, the premise of the story is that an archeologist discovers the actual cross on which Christ was crucified, and, finding DNA clones Christ. As I say, I don't know anything about it, but to those interested in sci fi and Human cloning, the premise is interesting.

Mr. Dark,

A clone of Christ? What an interesting premise for a novel. My mind spirals with plot ideas.

Maybe, some hybrid verson of Christ's image is endlessly duplicated and an army of extremists floods the earth, driven by adoration for their creator: a scientist in a Russian lab, or perhaps a religious extremist with deep pockets. Instead of being raised by the likes of Mary and Joseph, scores of Jesus clones live in dorms ruled with unflinching discipline, morphing into Jim Jones wannabes.

A kinder and gentler version would have God endowing man's faux version with a Christlike soul, thus enabling the Savior to walk among us in the 21st century.

Or perhaps, the Jesus clone, void of a soul, becomes the anti-Christ, whose coming is predicted, leaving chaos in his path as he DRIVES across the earth, stopping in Vegas and other Sodom-like cities to gather disciples.

Wonder where Bradbury would go with this premise? Perhaps he wouldn't even tackle it.

Celestial

Celestial:
Before I take off for the day (it's 9:20 in the morning Chicago at this moment)....

Jesus couldn't be cloned...becauseyou cannot clone God. A body, yes. But scripture says... : And the Word was made flesh (Word...is the name of Jesus before he became a man). Also, in John 1, 1: At the beginning of time the Word already was; and God had the Word abiding with Him, and the Word was God.

So you cannot clone the real Jesus. And scripture makes many references ..that the anti-christ already is here, in fact, there are many anti-christs.

Okay...till later....I gotta look into the speech in Something Wicked This Way Comes, that Dandelion spoke about...and comment on...

Right, you could, at best, clone the body of Christ -- not the entire scope of who he is. But, after all, it is just science fiction. When I saw the book, I have to admit to two feelings: (1) I was intrigued by the plot possibilities. (2) I wondered how this could be broached -- even in science fiction -- without becoming irreverent and sacriligous.

There was another interesting science fiction book that came out a couple years ago, called "Calculating God" by Robert J. Sawyer (TOR, NY. 2000). The premise was a spacecraft lands in Canada across the street from a museum housing a world famous paleantologist. Turns out, it is two beings from separate races and separate universes. They are alien scientists who are on an expedition to find "God". (They believe they know where he/she/it dwells, based on fluctuations in some kind of patterns in the cosmos.) As it turns out, Earth is the only planet among intelligent worlds who argues away the existence of God. Much of the dialog is really interesting and I really enjoyed the book.

Mr. Dark::
When you mentioned in above posting, about cloning the body of Christ, and not "...the scope of who He is", the scope is infinite...
Christ describes Himself as the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
John describes Him as the light the shines in every man that enters the world. No one understands the Father, but through Him....
In Ephesians it says, and the mystery is now explained, in that all things, those in heaven and those on Earth, all things that exist, shall find their fullfillment in who He is. Brother, that's a lot of...scope...

That's pretty much what I meant. The physical body of Christ -- while critical -- is not the "whole" of Christ. There's a bit more, isn't there?

Mr. Dark:

Yes, a bit more....

I tend to elaborate, paraphrase, draw out the meaning....otherwise, I may not get my more comprehensive point across. Of course, even when I do go on...there is always a 'few' out there who are waiting for the 'point' to be made

....I betcha they are ...still waiting!

I avoided entering this segment of discourse for a long while, because I saw it contained so many references to personal beliefs, and longings to see Ray Bradbury as one's fellow traveler in both personal life and belief. I am glad that Ray, through his words, sparks such feelings for becoming more God-like in us, the readers, but I am bothered to see that some would "pray" for Ray to see the world in the light of only their candle. However, I would propose here a different view, that of a person concerned with all the world's people, who seek truth and god in many different ways.

I really think Ray's stories, echo much of what John Lennon tried to say in his song "Imagine". What a better world if words, labels, membership in groups, "The Way", yes, religion, had less importance, and were diminished in absoluteness, and we saw ourselves as just tiny units of a vast universe of possibilites for good. Then we could come to see that we live our brief lives here on Spaceship Earth, one member of a vast universe of earths, as travelers, observers and more, as custodians of our time and place, with a mission to pass on our passion for living to each new generation, so that Mankind will continue to observe and to learn, and, thus, seek God.

Ray has stated he believes we must go forth from the Earth into the universe, to be there as Mankind for the future, certainly one among other 'kinds we will meet someday, so that God also will continue to exist and the universe can make sense. Without Mankind to experience the journey, what purpose for the universe? That is the most spiritual of thoughts and surpasses the bounds of any religion.

Love is all you really need.
Just four letters:
L earn, O bserve, V alue, E verything.

[This message has been edited by patrask (edited 03-06-2003).]

patrask:

Guess What?!!
Your own 'personal' beliefs....have just been added to the so-called labeled list....

Seems everyone elses beliefs are personal, and yours are not? Tsk tsk....All roads may lead to heaven, but only one door lets you in........

This thing about God continuing because we bring Him into outer space is ....one of the things Ray writes that is pure nonesense. Sorry to say, Poetically Romantic, but a bit Goofy....

Have you never heard of the 'Hound of Heaven'? Go read it....

click on, or type into finder: http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem2204.html




[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 03-06-2003).]

YOU GUYS!! How did you manage to turn this into a 3-page debate and NOT ONE PERSON recognized the quote is from "Fahrenheit 451"?! Page 110 of the new edition, the one with the weird-looking page numbers. The answer finally came from someone from a TOTALLY DIFFERENT group! I'm ashamed of you! ASHAMED!! F451 was my only other real possiblity besides "Brave New World" and "1984," as being a longer SF work read at that time, but my last reading was 19 years ago, so couldn't be sure. Time for a reread, at least before the movie is out!

Alright, Dandelion . . . Are you going to make me re-read it (in the middle of my own on-going Bradbury investigation in another area) or are you going to relieve our suspense and tell us where it is!?!

Please?

I mean the context of the story, not the page number.

[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 03-11-2003).]

It wouldn't hurt you to reread it, but...it's near the middle of the book, in the conversation with Faber. Faber is the speaker who talks about the Son of God dropping carefully-placed product endorsements. I just can't believe that, with all the discussion we've had lately on F451, it took someone from an American Religion group who just happens to be reading it (he didn't mention if it was for the first time) to spot this! Anyhow, I recommended this forum to him, so maybe we'll have more company soon.

Quoted from Fahreheit 451, from approximately the middle of the book, also...

Montag showed her a book. "This is the Old and New Testament, and..."

"Mildred's mouth twitched. "See what you're doing? You'll ruin us! Who's more important, me or that Bible?"

Would God buy that stock?

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/StockInv...GodBuyThatStock.aspx