Pterran,
you're right with your first point. And the second. But I stand by what I said, with amendments. Galvanization only happens after hesitency is resolved, and this movie helps to push many people to one side. And yes, Moore did fabricate the page more than I said he did. I still say it was for the better.

John Galt,
show me the Russian intelligence about WMD's. The Britsh is invalid - they were as believable as the US intelligence (that is, they fabricated a lot of things)

Cheers, transltor

"Mr. Dark.....you are about to see a whole lot more "conquered" and kept land on the behalf of the US especially if Bush stays the president...."

thormachine: Do you have secret, insiders information that allows you to make this statement?

Originally posted by John Galt:
========================

Moore is a good film maker. I'll give him that. Unfortunately, as you would expect from a man you dropped out of his freshman year of college, he is not the smartest cookie in the jar.

=========================

By your logic, that wouldn't make Ray the smartest cookie either, especially, given that he never went to college to begin with. Wouldn't it?

I'm not saying that this is what you are implying, nor that Mr. Bradbury lacks intelligence. However, if you are going to set a criterion by which you define the credibility of those involved in this matter, you should apply it to both parties.

Hence, one could also say: "Bradbury is a very good writer. I'll give him that. Unfortunately, as you would expect from a man who never went to college, he is not the smartest cookie."

It doesn't sound quite as nice when somebody uses a disingenuous attack like that on the person you are defending. Does it?


[This message has been edited by Christos (edited 08-09-2004).]

but bradbury shows in his writing that he is also a smart man. Moore makes unfounded statements and straight out lies.

quote:

Originally posted by Translator:
John Galt,
show me the Russian intelligence about WMD's. The Britsh is invalid - they were as believable as the US intelligence (that is, they fabricated a lot of things)

Cheers, transltor

Unfortunately I do not have the same access to Russian intelligence that our president does.

Has anyone stopped and thought maybe Saddam moved the weapons out in the month before the war when we were threatening to invade? Just a thought.

translator a lie is a lie is a lie....there is no such thing as a good lie or a bad lie. thats where you are wrong. moore lied plain and simple. you even addmited that. and you say moores lies are good. well how can slandering someone be morally right.

but translator maybe im a stupid right winger or a neocon as thor likes to put it, but can you show me these things that Bush lied about?? not just tell me them show me them. because im not seein a whole lot he lied about. everything he said he was ganna do he did.

ohh and I found this and it reminded me of some people on this board not naming any names. but i think you guys might find it interesting soo ill post it.

Who Am I?

I don�t believe in the concept of evil,

But I think the Bush administration is evil.

I care more about getting my social security and Medicare

Than I care about genocidal dictators.

I weep for whales and dying animals,

But I am unconvinced of the goodness and global necessity of freedom;

even after mass graves are discovered.

I want world peace,

But I�m not willing to export freedom.

Despite the success of the war against terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq;

Despite the success of the tax cuts and the rebounding economy,

I will continue to undermine the Bush Administration.

I still believe in moral relativism,

Even after 9/11.

I care more about what the rest of the world thinks of America

Than I do about the United States' national security.

I will say nothing, do nothing, and be nothing

In the name of tolerance

And in order to avoid serious confrontation.

I support troops

Who are following orders I do not agree with.

I think all fighting is wrong,

Even when its fighting to stop bad guys.

I care more about the mental and emotional scarring of a few Iraqi rebels

Than I do about the rape of Jessica Walker Lynch

Or the murder, burning, and sexual mutilation of four American civilians by Iraqis.

I care more about the mistreatment of a few Iraqi rebels

Than the worse atrocities John Kerry has admitted to committing.

I value all life,

Even the lives of villains.

I don't think all Islam is bad because what a few bad Muslims did on 9/11,

But I do think all of the U.S. Military is bad because of a few misbehaving reservists.

I love all humanity,

But I hate people in general.

I believe in democracy,

But I'm afraid of voters.

I want more jobs,

But I hate capitalism.

I'm for multinationalism,

But I'm against outsourcing American jobs.

I celebrate Cinco de Mayo,

But I hate Columbus Day.

I think everybody should be educated about Islam,

But whenever somebody mentions Christianity I gag.

I want to save whales and protect the environment,

But I support a woman�s right to kill her babies.

I think having a high I.Q. and an appreciation of art

Makes me morally wise.

I question authority,

And I can�t keep a job.

I question reality,

And I struggle with depression and suicide.

I am an adult,

But I have the world view of a 14 year old girl.

I am bulging with morality

In all the wrong places.

I am the liberal mind.


[This message has been edited by el stevieboy (edited 08-09-2004).]

el stevieboy

Someone in the Alan Keyes crowd would probably enjoy your list. Perhaps even Keyes himself:
http://www.renewamerica.us/

I actually got that from a fellow kerry crusher off of www.crushkerry.com its a great site. the people on there are so smart. but thats a cool site too nard

1) I disagree with you that the intelliegence was there int the first place (which is why Russia did not join the war). Prove me wrong.
2) It's a possibility that Iraq moved the weapons. But it's more likely that they hadn't any. Go for the simple answer first, and only when that one is invalid, go for the more complicated ones. Simple is that he hadn't any. Disprove it.

Cheers, Translator

translator

1) i dont feel like looking up this morning because i have to go and run a soccer camp and earn money. but I will respond to number 2 because I have articles handy for people like you.

2)Warsaw Business Journal

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2nd July 2004
Polish soldiers discover chemical agents in Iraq
From Poland A.M.

Polish soldiers discovered yet more evidence of the chemical weapons that Saddam's Iraq possessed, revealed U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld yesterday, stating that he received the news from Poland's Defense Minister Jerzy Szmajdzi�ski at the NATO summit earlier this week.

Szmajdzi�ski confirmed the report saying, "Polish soldiers discovered 16-17 Grad missiles and 82mm mortars. Initial investigation shows that they contain cyclo-sarin, a highly toxic gas." What has yet to be determined is in what year the projectiles and chemicals were made. Szmajdzi�ski added that the Polish army did not reveal the news itself, because it wanted to know more details about chemical warfare first. (Gazeta Wyborcza, p. 1) T.J.


theres some nerve gas for ya translator and here another...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124924,00.html

^^^naaaa there was never any uranium in iraq..I bet they were eatin that yellow cake lol

lets also ignore the fact they found components to bombs in a trash dump in syria. sheese I mean how did those scuds get into syria...

WMD's is alll a right wing conspiracy right translator right???

Ok. Great. Here is the follow up.

"Warheads found in Iraq not chemical weapons, military says

AFP | July 3 2004

Multinational forces in Iraq said on Friday that more than a dozen missile warheads said to contain mustard gas or sarin have tested negative for chemical agents.

Washington had announced the find by Polish troops on Thursday, which was later confirmed by Warsaw.

The head of Poland's military intelligence service also said on Friday that "terrorist" groups were seeking to acquire the weapons.

But the 122mm warheads, found in late June, have been found not to contain the deadly chemicals, a statement from multinational forces here said.

"Those 16 rounds were all empty and tested negative for any type of chemicals," it said.

Two other warheads found in mid-June were found to contain an insignificant amount of sarin gas. The armaments were left over from the Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s, the statement said.

"Due to the deteriorated state of the rounds and small quantity of remaining agent, these rounds were determined to have limited to no impact if used by insurgents against coalition forces."

Washington justified leading the invasion of Iraq in March 2003 by claiming the country was harbouring weapons of mass destruction. However, none has yet been found. "

Cheers, Translator

PS - I'm getting tired of answering everone's faulty claims. For the sake of sanity, the next time you, or anyone else, tries to show a link or an article, make sure that it still valid, and has not been thourhgly disproven by fact.

oak doka but what about the components and the uranium that was found and also the documents that show sddam was trying to buy yellow cake from niger?

That's wonderful--Thor is sick of this country. I, frankly am sick of American turncoats. Bush is exactly the right person for this country at this time. So, he has a little swagger to him and he has the "with us or against us" attitude, but it is time for that. Everyone has been stepping on the United States for a long time because we felt we were big enough to take it. Well enough is enough.

Kerry says he would fight a more compassionate war. That is an oxymoron from a moron. War is not compassionate. And secondly, we do not target kids or civilians. The war was a surgical strike and avoided the innocent at all costs, unlike 9/11 when killing any American was the simple goal.

Kerry's wife has donated a fortune to the Tides Foundation--an organization that supports Saddam, and has ties to the terrorist group Hamas. And people criticize Bush?



[This message has been edited by pabillsman1 (edited 08-14-2004).]

Why do we keep hashing this out? Translator and some others have one "anti-American" view -- and claim the facts back them up; and conservatives have another "pro-American" view -- and claim facts to back it up. Protest all you want, there are facts and interpretations of facts to give some support to both arguments. It's politics, for crying out loud!!!!!!

Let's get back to Bradbury.