Frankanger::

Click on: http://www.mbn.org

It's a conference at my church in Chicago, that I am attending when possible this week. Lots of speakers. Try it for a couple minutes. Believe me. It will not kill you. I think you'll find it refreshing. (Hope you can figure out the time difference in UK). Look for LIVE icon.....

Hey All,

Okay, I'm still befuddled by the idea that I either personally denegrated, mocked, or otherwise 'had a go' at people's beliefs. This was never an intention, but it seems I did in the process get the hackles up of a good few people on this board. What can I say about that? Well, I stated what I believed, simple as that. I've got no idea how I'm supposed to temper my words because of knowledge I did not possess (No, I had no idea Nard and Mr.Dark were so Religiously minded, although maybe I should have guessed) In any case, I wouldn't have tempered honest words, because that's about as dishonest a thing as I could do.

I deserve the right to speak about religion in any way which I choose, whether that upsets you or no. As to decorum, well I'll keep on expressing my own views in any way I choose to -- whether anyone thinks they are childish or not -- and anybody who compares a comment made in all honesty to a child's argument is obviously more childish than those he wishes to castigate, in my opinion at least (see what I did there? It's a personal belief, and it's as worthy as any of the crap I'm being accused of.)

Man, I don't like organised religion, so what? I don't believe Christ is my saviour, and that the whole line of that belief is gumf, so? Are you true believers (maybe I shouldn't use that word, I'm sure somebody here will just have a go over that one) so thin skinned that you can't take an opposing view? Turn the other cheek for christ's sake (ooh Christ, yeah, I mentioned him, doesn't mean I have to believe) and if you don't want to do that, try and give me some convincing evidence, that is other than 'the truth fits like a well made suit'. By the by, i don't own a suit, probably never will.

And lo Bradbury did say to the man he did not like very much --

'I'll kick you in the balls'

P.S. Yes, I'm pissed off. I made honest statements about what I believed, not anyone else, and all of my comments have been pounced on. Hey what can I say? Sometimes you just gotta let out the bad, so the good can be let back in.

Me and Bradbury all the way, baby

Peace
Frankanger.

[This message has been edited by frankanger (edited 02-09-2003).]

I don't recall telling you not to honestly state your opinion.

My own personal "style" is that courtesy and sensitivity to others don't hamper my ability to communicate my own perspectives. If that's not true for you, so be it. I don't have to call other people's beliefs "gumf" to state may own. You reserve the right to be unconcerned with how your baldly stated opinions affect other people, and I reserve the right to call for courtesy and maturity on the site. Fair enough.

Whether or not I personally am religious doesn't matter. When I talk about subjects that I know are important to people I AM (apparently unlike you) concerned that what I say and how I say it, do not denigrate -- even unintentionally, if I can help it -- the beliefs of others. Again, your lack of concern in that area is your business.

[good gravy, is this thread still alive?]

Hey, frankanger, don't feel isolated or put upon. In some ways I sympathize with much of what you are feeling. You're just calling it like you see it. You are living up to your UserName, no?

But at some point I wish you would consider: do you want to communicate with others and have them listen and understand you, or do you want to...I don't presume to know but just let's just say...let off steam, vent, throw a tantrum, or what have you. I'm not passing judgment--God knows I've done both on this board.

But if you are dismissive of other's views (as in the now infamous "gupf" comment), do you expect anyone to really listen to what you have to say?

And I think that's the crux of Mr. Dark's point--courtesy and sensitivity ENHANCES communication. It's not a straight-jacket...at least, it doesn't have to be.

Everyone here has their own frame of reference for interpreting Bradbury's works. I myself would never have thought Jesus would show up so often, but I find it interesting to no end how so many persons with such diverse viewpoints all find Ray to be so inspiring.

PS: something tells me you would be very happy in a meeting of Harlan Ellison fans...talk about frank anger!


[This message has been edited by WritingReptile (edited 02-10-2003).]

So, who did Bradbury threaten to kick in the balls? Now, Harlan Ellison saying that, I would believe. (Maybe even following through on it!)

Communicating without anger is at the center of much of RB's writing. IE, Montag got nowhere with his poetry slam in the parlor.

Good does not rise out of bad. The yin exists separately from the yang, though the two realms could not get any closer. We have a free will to chose our own paths that will then lead to our destiny.

There must be faith or beliefs or we simply are what we are - "naked humans," metaphorically speaking! Not much to brag about it seems. And now we can even get cloned. Wonderful!


Just curious, FA: is this a typical tone in your daily encounters or merely for the sake of debate on the site?

As for a parallel in RB works, would you see yourself as Spender or Biggs at the canal on Mars?


[This message has been edited by fjpalumbo (edited 02-10-2003).]

Agreeing with WritingReptile, one of the things I like about this site is the broad range of perspectives represented of those persons who really respond to Bradbury's writing.

In the same vein, I'm impressed with the multi-generational appeal he generates, also. Some of us are "well-established" or "seasoned" and some are just starting out. Yet Bradbury appeals to the whole range of us. Whether a range of beliefs, or a broad spectrum of ages -- I think it is amazing that Bradbury's appeal is felt by such a broad range of persons.

Although some mannerisms in expression vary, I have enjoyed the perspectives noted on these pages. I hope these multiple perspectives continue to be represented -- to broaden and challenge my own interpretations.

I think I am about to go off on the mouth like....

frankanger...

...and start spouting all kinds of stuff...because I have the right....

And if I offend anybody, that's just TOO BAD....

I have the right to say what I want to say, and you don't have to listen or read anything ... no one is twisting your eyeball to read this stuff.......

I believe my Saviour is Jesus Christ, and that Ray Bradbury is the most influential writer of my generation and probably the last generation...And could well be a force to recon with in the next generation....and maybe even the next one, too.....
I don't care who it is that reads this thing and says that I'm pushing my own opinions on others......

THESE are the things I need to say and don't care who gets mad about it......

(( Because of fragile ears and eyes tuning in here, I had to edit some of the things I had to say....))



[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 02-10-2003).]

Continuing from my last posting (above). I'm also excited to see people posting from China, Russia, and many other countries around the world. I enjoy their perspectives and comments and am excited to see Bradbury's writing circle the globe. I do think he is one of the most (if not THE most) influential writers today.

Because he was originally pigeon-holed as a science fiction writer, I think he's been underestimated by some in academia. On the other hand, there are at least two Cliff's Notes dedicated to him, and he is in required reading lists in hundreds of schools. So, maybe he's not so neglected, after all. . .

As far as I know he is the only Author that NASA honored a crater on the moon with by naming it after a title of one of his books.



"Dandelion crater" seems an appropriate spot as any for a launch site to build a station to voyage to Mars. Wink, Wink, Nudge, Nudge!!!

Make a wish! Follow it through we are our only limits.

Talking about the moon....

Probably mentioned this stuff before...

But I was led to understand, long time ago, that every fellow that walked on the moon, said he was influenced by a Ray Bradbury story that they read when growing up....

Back around 1987 thereabouts, met Moon Rover Driver, Apollo 15, Jim Irwin... while he was out jogging. He invited me to a film showing and talk he was giving at a private home later that evening. After the film, of his travels on the moon, and his talk of his conversion to Christianity, we talked awhile. ( Interesting to note that he left an open Bible on the seat of the Rover that he drove on the moon ) In our conversation, I told him of my interest in Bradbury...and he immediately asked how he could get in touch with Ray. He said he very much enjoyed his writing, and I gave him Ray's whereabouts.

I don't know if Jim ever did get in touch with Ray (I would think he did). But, Ray's influence on the early astronauts is great, from what I heard...and at least in this personal documentation.

[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 02-10-2003).]

Sad to say, we may even have had a Sam Parkhill on the board from time to time, but certain people tend to remind me most of Hitchcock in "No Particular Night or Morning"--as the Beatles song says, "a real nowhere man."

"Hitchcock" -- Good one, Dandy! Also, the man's reflections at the end of Hemingway's Clean, Well-lighted Place, "...nada, nada, y nada!"