For its unity, its spectacular imagery, its wonder, and its sense of simple childlike innocence in the face of even the most unthinkable dangers--the lonely one--this book outranks all other coming of age novels I have ever encountered. I cannot begin to do justice to the love of literature it has inspired within me. Alongside The Martian Chronicles and The Illustrated Man, this is one of Bradbury's greatest works. Thank you Ray. And a big recommendation goes out to those of you who have not yet read Dandelion Wine. Imbibe. It is pure vintage Bradbury.

You said it!

Hear, Hear !!

All right, all right! I just got a hard copy. I'll have to re-read it now! I read it back in high school (in a one-room log cabin, no less!). I know it (like Martian Chronicles) has been compared to two other significant literary books:

"In Our Time" by Ernest Hemingway, and

"Winesburg, Ohio" by Sherwood Anderson

Is the repetition of the term "wine" in the titles a coincidence? I think not. I read an interview somewhere were Bradbury listed Sherwood Anderson as a real influence on him. While I try to work "Dandelion Wine" into my reading, you will have to work in the two mentioned above. Then give us all a "compare and contrast" report.

o.k. Mr. Dark. You've got my interest piqued now. I just happen to have copies of both of those classics. I will give them both a re-read over the weekend and let you know how I think they compare. Good for you for picking up on the title similarity. I never knew that Ray considered Anderson an influence. Not surprising, though.

I've seen "Dandelion Wine" described as "nearly plotless." I've read "Winesburg, Ohio," and am reading "Look Homeward, Angel," by Thomas Wolfe, and find them to be even more plotless than "Dandelion Wine"--descriptions of characters and places, sometimes vividly done, including some life incidents--but not sure they amount to a plot.

Haven't read "Dandelion Wine" for a long time (need to get at it!), and haven't read "Look Homeward, Angel", but the "In Our Time" by Hemingway has a structure that could, I suppose, be called "plotless", although I think the word is kind of harsh.

The idea of "In Our Time" is to show a human life's gradual acceptance of life-as-it-is in a series of vignettes. They are not tied together by plot, really, but by character and theme. I think Hemingway views our lives as being lived that way. It's not really one ordered plot, but a series of vignettes, encounters, or events that form who we are and what we think and feel in a cumulative way.

I loved both (well, all three) of the books. They are not traditionally structured plots, but neither are they isolated short stories.

I like how you think, Mr. Dark. I have read Look Homeward Angel(one of my favourites), and it feels like being immersed in Eugene's life. No formula plot, just beauty and conflict and sadness. The stuff of life. So in that respect, Dandelion Wine is a blood brother.

If you haven't read it yet, try "Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man" by James Joyce. I know this is a Bradbury site, but that book has stayed with me since I read it at 17 or 18. I was going through some real religious/philosophical issues then (what can I say? The sixties were just wrapping up!), and this book hit me with great force in the way Joyce blends religion and literature. (Like T.S. Eliot)

Now that I think of it, the topic of blending religion, philosophy and literature seems VERY germane to a site dedicated to Bradbury. That was one of the things that appealed to me in "The Martian Chronicles" -- this aspect of the religion of the ancient Martian cultures . . . a kind of blending of Buddhism, American Indian mysticism, the appreciation of beauty, etc.

Yes Mr. Dark, you've got it right. The Martian Chronicles pulls together a rich blend of philosophical and quasi-religious questing. Spender in particular comes to mind with his rabid idealism and fascination with the Egyptian style philosophies found in the old Martian towns. Old Captain Wilder had some sympathies of course, but he was a soldier first. He did his duty. When it comes right down to it, Bradbury seems to be saying that a common sense duty-bound approach to extremes is the only way to make it through troubled times. The final chapter of the book certainly bears this out as well.

On another note, I finished "In Our Time" this past weekend. Found it unified in a different way than "Dandelion Wine". Bradbury coheres his vignettes of innocence and childhood memories around a core of quiet but expectent reflection. There is always the sense that something exciting is just on the verge of happening around the next bend. The opening chapter is especially rife with this quality. But it abounds throughout the book. Even the lovely piece about the young man who falls in love with the older woman--a tale of love out of sync with the times--pulls the reader inexorably towards a hushed state of expectant quietude. Yet Hemingway drives at our tolerance for violence with a relentless fury that is as unbounded as it is muted. He seems intent upon tearing down the notion that daily life is innocent. This seems to me to be the antithesis of Bradbury's "Dandelion Wine". Hemingway's interchapters deal exclusively with death in all its multi-faceted gory glory. Race hatred is just another form of death that emerges here--the death of love for one's fellow man. None of that comes through in Bradbury's book. But for all their differences, there are also similarities. Hemingway's stark poesy blends realism with fantasy in a subtle manner. You can't help but wonder at the "Soldier's Home" when the recently returned veteran stares vacantly into his mother's eyes and tells her he doesn't love her. There is a surrealism here that is as deep as it is poignant. The brilliant metaphor of the "Three Day Blow", where a storm is compared to Nick's breakup with his girlfriend in "The End of Something"
hits with stark and grim poetic reality. And the final chapter, "Big Two Hearted River" makes for delightful reading and stands itself as a strong symbol for the eddies, rapids, swamps, and burnt out patches of forest that inhabit the pages of this fine novel.

Thanks again for reminding me of it, Mr. Dark. I couldn't find Sherwood Anderson's "Winesburg, Ohio" on my shelf though. I know that's due for a read one day soon when I can track it down.

Keep in touch, eh.

Loved your reaction, analysis, and response. Can I quote you?

Hemingway does have a more "negative" world view than Bradbury, but in the end, he believes you can create order, meaning and a quiet happiness. The order manifest in his books and stories attests to the ability of man to create a "clean, well-lighted place" in the midst of chaos, terror and violence.

In "Big, Two-Hearted River" Hemingway shows the devastation of life, but also man's ability to create order and meaning in the midst of the violence. Although not as cheerful as Bradbury (although reading "The Dwarf" "The Skeleton" and some others shows that he has a dark side, also) I find Hemingway to be very hopeful -- given his assumptions about the nature of life.

Enjoy, and, as Electrico says in his postings, "Live Forever"

P.S. Hemingway's "The End of Something" is one of my favorite stories. Short, rich in symbolism from beginning to end, and very realistic. Why are they breaking up? "It isn't fun any more." I love how Hemingway keeps it simple. In "Indian Camp", when the doctor's son asked why the Indian man committed suicide, the father's response is, "He just couldn't stand it any more, I guess."

Mr. Dark: The respect Mr. Bradbury has for Mr. Hemingway comes through in numerous remarks he has made about his own "favorites." This is evident in "The Parrot Who Loved Papa" and most recently (in One More For the Road) "The F.Scott/Tolstoy/Ahab Accumulator." It seems he wishes to protect the legendary status of EH, in view of his tragic final years.

Stylistically, I thought From the Dust Returned had several examples of Hemingway's importance to RB. He extended details in a manner reminiscent (and possibly "in honor" -do you think??) of Hemingway.

I have many times enjoyed EH's great s.s. collection: Snow of Kilimanjaro.

Yes--feel free to use whatever I post. Musings are my speciality. I concur with your views about Hemingway's efforts to show man's ability to find a "clean, well-lighted place" in the midst of chaos, terror and violence. And in "Big, Two-Hearted River"
I couldn't help but notice that he saved the swampy parts for another day. Maybe because he wanted to cherish the difficult times, maybe because he needed to "rest up" for them. The ambiguity is part of the charm.

Thanks for the salutation and may you too "Live forever" in the richest sense of that verb.

I agree that it is significant that he saved the swampy parts for later. Again, Hemingway recognizes that man is limited and that we can only take on so much at a time. The swamp represents depth and ambiguity he is not prepared to address. But it is okay to put it aside for awhile. But to just deny it and pretend it isn't there would be a moral wrong for Hemingway. It's like the end of "Heart of Darkness" when he exclaims, "The horror, the horror". It isn't that there is only horror, but that horror is part of the human condition.

This has been a fun string. Perhaps there is more to mine here.

Thanks for the dialog -- all of you. This site revivifies me. I was part of the Nortel Networks 60,000 layoffs and have been looking for work. Not an exciting time of my life. When I come here and read and dialog with you, it brings me back up and reminds me that my first love is Literature (with Bradbury being the original catalyst for me!), and telecommunications was never anything more than a way to make money.

(Still, a little money is not such a bad thing. . .)

To fjpalumbo:

I love Hemingway's Short Stories. He and Bradbury are both absolute masters of the genre. Can you pack any more into a story than in Bradbury's "The Pedestrian" or in Hemingway's "The Short Happy life of Francis Macomber"? Two of my "biblical" literary collections are Hemingway's "The Complete Short Stories of Ernest Hemingway" and Bradbury's collection, "The Stories of Ray Bradbury".

When you combine their mastery of the novel with their mastery of the short story, they stand above most of their peers. While Hemingway got the Nobel; both have created two important legacies:

(1) Hemingway changed the way the english language was written in fiction. Bradbury's poetic prose was the first such voice in science fiction/fantasy.

(2) Both of them have generated multiple generations of devotees. They seem to gather momentum over time, rather than wane. One of the fun things on this message board is reading another generation's excitement about the works of Bradbury, and that excitement represents the range of Bradbury's writing -- not just the school assignments.

They both will enjoy a literary legacy for years and years to come.

(someday I'll learn to spell . . . although I suppose I'm entering my Alzeimer-risk years now)


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 09-13-2002).]