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Andrew, I didn’t post to start some sort of inane personal squabble-pissing contest that some forum folks relish in. But you made a statement which I quote-

“Bradbury's agent did nothing to reclaim any money from Hill House because he didn't want to alienate the editor of his mass market publisher.“

...and I’m asking you if you know this to be a fact because if you do not- and I suspect you do not- that’s a pretty huge charge and burden of responsibility you have laid at the doorstep. And If I were Ray’s agent I’d be pretty pissed.
 
Posts: 106 | Location: SoCal | Registered: 30 March 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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To answer your question, my statements are indeed facts despite your assumption that they are not. It strikes me as odd that you are so quick to be aggressive and challenge what I've said. I'm beginning to wonder what stake you have in the publication of this book and what your true motives are.

Do not mistake my deliberately vague information as BS. I wish I could be more specific, but my sources have relationships with Ray & the people responsible for his past, current & forthcoming publications so I can't jeopardize any of their existing business relationships by dropping names.

Ray's current agent is the son of his former agent & I have direct knowledge that he has done nothing to help anyone in this debacle. I have e-mailed Ray's agent. I have spoken to publishers that have e-mailed & spoken to Ray's agent. He is not his father & has done nothing to attempt to rectify this situation. He very well may be "pissed" as you so intelligently put it, but as Ray's agent he should've done more & he didn't.

Either way, Peter Schneider is the real villain. My point is not to attack Ray's agent, but to discuss with other board members any ideas on how to recoup the money Schneider stole from us.

So, please stop making assumptions about the statements I'm making. I'm not sure who you work for or what your motives are, but this thread was started in an effort to discuss getting a refund for those of us that pre-ordered a book from Hill House that we'll never receive.
 
Posts: 79 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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OK, well I guess its IS going to be one of those pissing contests -sigh-

quote:
Originally posted by Andrew:
To answer your question, my statements are indeed facts despite your assumption that they are not. It strikes me as odd that you are so quick to be aggressive and challenge what I've said. I'm beginning to wonder what stake you have in the publication of this book and what your true motives are.


If they are facts, then back them up. That's all that needs to be done. Otherwise you will be taken seriously by no one. Why it would strike anyone odd that one would challenge an outrageous statement without facts to back it up is odd. As far as what my stake is in this, clearly I'm really Peter Schneider. Please send me more money.

quote:
Do not mistake my deliberately vague information as BS. I wish I could be more specific, but my sources have relationships with Ray & the people responsible for his past, current & forthcoming publications so I can't jeopardize any of their existing business relationships by dropping names.


Right, but you see fit to make vague allegations and that's OK. Maybe you should have remained silent. I guess you know a guy who's cousin's sister use to know Ray Bradbury's gardener. Most everyone up here with any connection to Ray, even in a distant fashion, are pretty up front and not into playing this kind of game.

quote:
Ray's current agent is the son of his former agent & I have direct knowledge that he has done nothing to help anyone in this debacle. I have e-mailed Ray's agent. I have spoken to publishers that have e-mailed & spoken to Ray's agent. He is not his father & has done nothing to attempt to rectify this situation. He very well may be "pissed" as you so intelligently put it, but as Ray's agent he should've done more & he didn't.


I'm not sure, again, what Ray's agent has to do with you losing money to Hill House. I don't think anyone is raking Neil Gaiman's agent over the coals here for the same situation. What publishers? You mean you've asked Barry over at Gauntlet and Bill at Subterranean for some input and that puts you in the know? That again is pretty vague. Just tell us if you really know something.

quote:
Either way, Peter Schneider is the real villain. My point is not to attack Ray's agent, but to discuss with other board members any ideas on how to recoup the money Schneider stole from us.


I agree that I am, er I mean Peter Schneider is responsible here. I don't think recouping your money will be helped along by blaming Ray's agent for not coming to the rescue. And if Schneider is broke, exactly what do you think would be done?

quote:
So, please stop making assumptions about the statements I'm making. I'm not sure who you work for or what your motives are, but this thread was started in an effort to discuss getting a refund for those of us that pre-ordered a book from Hill House that we'll never receive.


My motive is to not let an outrageous charge just go by. And to promote my new imprint, Hell House.
 
Posts: 106 | Location: SoCal | Registered: 30 March 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hell House? Hell, don't forget Hull House, part of the Circle Campus in Chicago.

What has this to do with anything? Who knows? Maybe Peter Schneider attended there. Maybe some college student there is still waiting for their Hill House book!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hull_House
 
Posts: 439 | Location: Oak Park, IL | Registered: 19 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by speedlace:
quote:
Originally posted by gguthrie:
If you purchased the book through a credit card, go through your credit card company and state you never got the book that you paid for. This is your best chance. If you paid by Paypal there is no way to recoup the loss (a big reason not to use paypal).


I don't know what PayPal's official policies on this are, but I used PayPal to pay Hill House for a collection of Bradbury's poetry that they never delivered, and after several unsuccessful attempts to get the book (or a refund) from Hill House, I contacted PayPal, who reversed the charge.

I paid in June 2008 and was refunded in August 2008. The name on the Hill House account was Peter Schneider, and he was listed as "verified" - which I believe is supposed to ensure some kind of "buyer protection" by PayPal.

Good luck to all trying to get their money back!

You got lucky Speedlace. I think there is a 90 day period were you can recoup your loss with Paypal. Humdrumming is another small press (from the UK) who folded this year. I paid $250 for a lettered edition of a Tim Lebbon book, that looked great, but they ended up never making. Paypal wouldn't refund my money because I made the payment like 1 year previous and that was too long for me to be able to file a claim. Frowner

Talking about agents, Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, two hugely successful authors are in the same boat as Bradbury. I lost money on all three authors. No word on Pratchett, but we got the "no" for Bradbury, but with Gaiman we are seeing his book Neverwhere and it's being published in Limited Edition form by WilliamMorrow, and as far as I can tell we do not have to pay for it? At least it was not mentioned in the email that we had to pay. We'll see though.
 
Posts: 81 | Registered: 03 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes! If you paid thru PAYPAL,
PAYPAL will cover your loss.
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: South Orange County, CA USA | Registered: 28 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
Yes! If you paid thru PAYPAL,
PAYPAL will cover your loss.


Sorry to hear of this situation but it's great hearing good things about Paypal.
 
Posts: 7166 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
Yes! If you paid thru PAYPAL,
PAYPAL will cover your loss.

lol, I don't know how else to say this. But this is a 100% incorrect assessment of Paypal. they will not cover your loss for a book your purchased 2 years ago. Please try it, and let me know of your failure. I have tried it and Paypal would NOT pay for my loss.
 
Posts: 81 | Registered: 03 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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gguthrie~ Thanks for the little lol. There is a statute of limitations for practically everything except murder. Abuse in nursing homes to credit cards have a statute of limitations. So does PayPal.
 
Posts: 3954 | Location: South Orange County, CA USA | Registered: 28 June 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
gguthrie~ Thanks for the little lol. There is a statute of limitations for practically everything except murder. Abuse in nursing homes to credit cards have a statute of limitations. So does PayPal.

no problem Smiler

...and yea, unfortunately they do. I just got an email back from Paypal today as I checked, and Paypal's limitation is 45 days from transaction. So if you file a claim within 45 days you are good, but if it's after 45 days then you are stuck out in the cold. Credit cards are a more secure purchase option, in my opinion.
 
Posts: 81 | Registered: 03 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hi all.

I hope you'll understand that I need to be circumspect, as I don't publicly discuss negotiations, but I'd like to clear one thing up. One of the initial concerns that Michael Congdon had when Peter Crowther and I were offered THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES was how best to satisfy those who had paid for the proposed Hill House edition.

As someone with intimate knowledge, I can definitively state that it is in no way Michael's fault or responsibility that HH's customers have not been able to secure refunds.

There were a number of parties involved in these negotiations, and ALL of them needed to work together to solve this problem. One party chose to absent themselves without notice at a critical point.

I hope this clears things up to the small degree I'm able.

Best,

Bill
www.subterraneanpress.com


Subterranean Press
www.subterraneanpress.com
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: 04 February 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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With all due respect, I’m calling shenanigans. Subterranean/PS are charging a small fortune for the numbered edition of the book.

Being true book collectors (rather than aggressive, amateur, internet message board fact-checkers with apparent ulterior motives) we know what it costs to produce a book and we know how much publishers have generally charged for Ray’s numbered editions. Over the past several years I have collected 99% of Ray’s written work (sorry Carcosa, I don’t have a certified, notarized document proving this fact) and I know many publishers sell numbered editions for $100 - $200. $300 for a numbered edition of The Martian Chronicles is ludicrous (they’re selling an anthology of Ray’s detective stories than runs almost 800 pages for $50!) Heck, I’ve seen some lettered editions sell for around $300. With tipsheets already signed Subterranean/PS could easily have provided those who were defrauded by Hill House a PC copy of the book (either signed or unsigned). That would have been the ethical thing to do, and something that could’ve been taken care of with the parties involved, including Ray’s agent.

At the end of the day it’s apparent that Schneider’s wife and her job at Morrow has drastically effected the outcome of this situation and it amazes me that everyone continues to ignore this conflict of interest.

Maybe no one else cares, or are too busy wasting their time uselessly nitpicking this topic, but this whole thing stinks.

EDIT: Hooray for the ignore list! Carcosa, please find another thread & another board member to bother!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Andrew,
 
Posts: 79 | Registered: 23 June 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Relax.


Email: ordinis@gmail.com
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Redmond, Washington USA | Registered: 18 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nico:
Relax.

LM(something)AO!


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6904 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Andrew:
With all due respect, I’m calling shenanigans. Subterranean/PS are charging a small fortune for the numbered edition of the book.

Being true book collectors (rather than aggressive, amateur, internet message board fact-checkers with apparent ulterior motives) we know what it costs to produce a book and we know how much publishers have generally charged for Ray’s numbered editions. Over the past several years I have collected 99% of Ray’s written work (sorry Carcosa, I don’t have a certified, notarized document proving this fact) and I know many publishers sell numbered editions for $100 - $200. $300 for a numbered edition of The Martian Chronicles is ludicrous (they’re selling an anthology of Ray’s detective stories than runs almost 800 pages for $50!) Heck, I’ve seen some lettered editions sell for around $300. With tipsheets already signed Subterranean/PS could easily have provided those who were defrauded by Hill House a PC copy of the book (either signed or unsigned). That would have been the ethical thing to do, and something that could’ve been taken care of with the parties involved, including Ray’s agent.

At the end of the day it’s apparent that Schneider’s wife and her job at Morrow has drastically effected the outcome of this situation and it amazes me that everyone continues to ignore this conflict of interest.

Maybe no one else cares, or are too busy wasting their time uselessly nitpicking this topic, but this whole thing stinks.

EDIT: Hooray for the ignore list! Carcosa, please find another thread & another board member to bother!


Really, then you know what it cost us in rights to the book proper, the additional material, what it cost us to pay Ray a signing fee for the book, for the two color printing, the design, and all of the other things we're doing to make this a once in a lifetime Bradbury limited?

Please, if you can, share your expertise, and enumerate these costs. I'll be frankly interested to see how close you come to reality.

Finally, I'll point out that your problem is with Hill House, not with Subterranean or PS. We came onboard after that fiasco, and bear no obligation (legal or ethical) to clean up a mess that we didn't create. That you may not believe it is so does not change this fact.

Bill
www.subterraneanpress.com


Subterranean Press
www.subterraneanpress.com
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: 04 February 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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