Madonna said that she cried thru the whole movie.

Oh, come on get a life.



[This message has been edited by libRArY (edited 06-27-2004).]

Actually, I don't think you can honestly accuse Madonna of not having a life. You may not chose her lifestyle for yourself, but it's quite life. Compare yours' to hers' and let me know what you decide.

The scene in the movie that I found most heart rendering was the Iraqi baby whose leg was so badly wounded in the war that you could see the bone.

Then, of course, there was the mother who lost her son, an American soldier, and.....

....the Iraqi family whose home was "raided" Gestapo-like and terrified by our soldiers and....

...the wives looking for their husbands after the World Trade Center Towers fell (on Bush's watch, of course. Bush! Who we see on a golf course saying, "Yes, I'm serious about terrorism; now
watch this drive.")

Now, you tell me: Did you see the movie wise guy or are you just flapping your jaw?


[This message has been edited by Word Warrior (edited 06-27-2004).]

Gee! Look at ths. A make believe Michael Moore Documentary style thigmafilm:
http://www.apple.com/trailers/independent/the_corporation.html

Noam Chomsky. For a man who is a linguist why do I get the urge everytime he opens his mouth to spit?

"Every time I hear the word 'culture' I want to reach for my revolver." -- Hermann Goering

I'm not too much interested in your or Goering's "urges."

I compared F911 to "Uncle Tom's Cabin" because the analogy holds on several levels. As a work of art, it's not very artistic, and arguably not intended to be. Moore is a rabble-rousing firebrand, and he knows it. His work is intended as a truthful counterweight to right-wing lying blather, and by "truthful" I don't mean "bending over backwards to appear fair-minded." Moore's methods are a little on the crude side-- some would say a whole lot on the crude side-- but I don't necessarily see that as a fault. Polemic is not designed to be great art, or high art.

What could lead me to despair about viewing F911 comments over on imdb.com (or would, if I didn't take into account the likely age of many of the posters) is the seeming lack of basic knowledge in America about the meaning of terms such as "documentary," "propaganda," and so on.

Few people seem to understand, for example, that "propaganda" is a morally neutral term. There's "good propaganda" as well as "bad propaganda" and "somewhere-in-between propaganda." "Documentary" does not mean that a work doesn't have a point of view. In fact, the exact opposite is usually implied. Still less does it mean that the documentarian is expected to comply with the journalistic standards of, say, the New York Times, any more than football is played by the same rules as tennis.

Another useful point of comparison between "Uncle Tom's Cabin" and "F911" is that both were widely and viciously attacked by propagandists representing the opposite point of view. A frequent charge made against UTC was that Stowe had spent too little time in the South to have any idea what slavery was really like. Later historians have confirmed that most of her descriptions of slavery were right on the money.

A last point of comparison is that though "Uncle Tom's Cabin" was greatly talked-about and highly influential in its time, it had a short shelf life in the public consciousness. It's seldom read nowadays except by students of history. As literature, it was not a classic. It's almost a no-brainer to predict a similar fate for "Fahrenheit 9/11," but for now, it's definitely worth seeing-- especially if you haven't made up your mind how you feel about America's presence in Iraq, or how you're going to vote this fall.

My only problem is I don't think "Fahrenheit 9/11" goes far enough. Moore went for the jugular. I would've gone for the carotid artery.

[This message has been edited by Petronius Arbiter II (edited 07-07-2004).]

Joseph Heller is just 2 or 3 years younger than Bradbury. Wonder what Heller would have thought ? if Michael Moore entitled his film: Catch 9/11

Chomsky is one of the greatest americans, so I guess you like spitting on your country, Ought Not...
I like the connection between Uncle Tom's Cabin and FH 911. But one was about slavery, the other stupidity - the similarity can only go so far.
I mentioned to someone already that Moore was not as prickly as he should have been with his movie. A great deal of explosive material did not show up. I would have gone for the cojones.
Cheers, Translator

Went to see a late showing of ...'''Spider-Man'' last night, (Sunday) and on the way out (nearly midnight)... slipped into '''Fahrenheit 9/11'''.

Wow! Full theater nearly...

...and walked into the scene where President Bush is getting ready in front of the camera to say that America will attack Iraq. His face is twisting, and twitching, and trying to settle down into a demeanor that he is comfortable with, and having a tough time doing it. As he announces the decision, played are video scenes of children playing, parties with smiling faces of families, children on bikes, etc. Afterwards, bombings, and video of people blown up, kids with arms dangling on shreds of skin and muscle tissue. Soldiers being interviewed how they used hard music played into their helmets and tanks while they advanced on Bahgdad.

I stayed only about 5 or 6 minutes, because my wife was waiting outside wanting to get on home. Otherwise would have snuck an empty seat somewhere, probably only ones down row 1 & 2 in front

But I will get back to see the whole movie. Yet, those scenes are just how you can make any person ...or any event ...seem to be whatever you want it to be.

You can take Michael Moore ...and make a documentary on him to either make him look like a 'saint' or 'sinner' and everything in between. You can cater to whatever theology YOU wish to express.

So it's not fair to take it at 'fact' value.

But I will see the entire movie sometime later this week and comment...

I saw the movie late last night. Moore is, if nothing else, a talented filmmaker.

A section of the movie was (in my mind) designed to criminalize our troops, to make them look like petty murderers and bloodthirsty, evil people. I did not appreciate that section.

Bush was visiting an elementary school in Florida when the 9/11 attacks started. A camera was in the classroom, filming him and the children, as an aide came up and informed Bush of the first plane hitting the World Trade Center. A few minutes later, the aide returned and told him of the second plane. This was the most poignant part of the movie for me, watching the footage and trying to imagine the thoughts that went through the President's mind. It must have been almost unbearable for him to sit and mull over what was happening.

The movie had an opposite effect on me. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld - they're all people. They're human. They are just people doing the best job they know how.

I thought the movie was fairly good, but it was clearly propaganda. Some of the sections were merely cheap insults and slander, others were informative and thought-provoking. I can't say I'd recommend it to many people.

And I still don't know who I'll vote for come November.