Just got done listening to an hours' worth of radio realist Dr. Laura Schlessinger. I think that was actually her having her say on this board. I'll be okay as soon as I watch some cartoonies on TV.

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
Vaccous?

The irony in that I spelt vacuous wrong brings shame to me... On another note, I'm a male, and I'm angry because I don't feel like I'm asking much. The assignments due tomorrow so it doesn't really matter now anyways. Lastly, I was asking help because out of the 5 short stories I had to analyze, I cannot find a connection between the Visitor and Bradbury, and I thought that those who have maybe read the biography could possibly shed some light on it for I've been working on this for hours. Anyways, sorry for the hostility.

atroposmar:

HERE ARE THE ANSWERS FOR YOUR PAPER DUE TOMORROW!:

I called Ray at home. It's dinner time but he wasn't eating. So I asked him point blank what prompted him to write:

~The Man~

His answer:
"I was raised a Baptist. From the time I was 7 years old in Waukegan, Ilinois. That's why I wrote that."

~Kaleidoscope~

"Oh my gosh. I wake up every morning and God speaks to me what to write. There is no other reason."

~The Other Foot~

"I knew there was problems with the blacks and the whites and I wrote about that. That's all there is about that."

And..
~ Zero Hour~, and ...
~The Visitor~

"Same thing. I wake up and I write. No other reason."

_______________________________________________

There you are, 'atroposmar'. You can't get a better answer than from the one who wrote the stories themselves!

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU!

(If your teacher says he doesn't like the answers, just tell 'em Ray Bradbury himself answered the questions. Because he really did!))

Wow, COOL, Nard, thanks for posting the GREAT answers!

I could edit out all the abusive comments, but what would be the point, it would take out all the fun. (Yes, I'm a Nard-licking noob and darn proud of it!)

I've been wondering what to say when asked "why" I wrote the works on which I'm working--since on the surface the characters and settings aren't much like mine--"just because" I'm compelled to is the best I've come up with, too....

Nard:

Love (and am jealous--in a christian way, of course [is that possible?]--of) your access to Mr. Bradbury; but the problem with his answers to things like this is that they are not always helpful. For example, "Conversations with Ray Bradbury", page 146, he says he was directly inspired by the Mcarthey hearings in writing F451. He says he was specifically angry about the government dragging in the Hollywood writers. But in other instances, he says things like, "just let an idea get away with me and follow it". So, which is it?

I don't have the specific reference in front of me, but I know that on, for example, "The Other Foot", he was responding to a specific game he'd seen or read about that occured in a small town. It wasn't some vague "problems with blacks...", it was a response to a specific event, as well as a commentary on race relations.

He loves to downplay the role of the intellect for the role of the inspired creative genious. I accept that as true, except that his stories mean more than that. I know he just writes and the meanings are for others to find (he has also said that many times--to me in fact), but there appears to be a mythology to the man and to his image of himself, that makes him a bit more complicated (and interesting) than his own mythology about himself would indicate. Although he loves to talk about waking up and writing (and it is obvious that IS what he does), I believe these ideas are generated by things in the prevailing culture at the time, and also reflect things on his mind (whether subconsciously or not), and it is worth trying to understand what those things are.

Again, with his comments about "The Man" and being raised a Baptist, his answer above is not enlightening. There are millions of baptists out there. They didn't write this story. Why did this story come to him? What is he saying about religion in it? He wrote it because he was a Baptist? Something in his brain was functioning here.

I accept Bradbury's account of his writing. I do think he is inspired. One of Plato's criticisms of poets was that they write on the basis of a kind of muse. As a result, they didn't think about what the poems meant. Because of this, he didn't think they were so wise. This is Bradbury's account of things--that they just come to him and it is up to others to sort out the meaning.

So, it is all very, very interesting. The idea that he has NO ideas about these stories or that they are somehow extra-historical, flies in the face of some of his interviews where he talks a great deal about historical ties to his stories and what they're saying.

Atropsmar: I apologize if some of us sound cranky or unhelpful to you. A lot of us teach (I teach had a community college, but taught middle school in East Los Angeles for awhile), and it is frustrating to see students ask questions when they have done little or no research, and come here looking for the easy out. It is too easy for some of us (myself included) to lump all students together on these boards. I think there is a joy to discovery, and rewards for scholarly work, and so I like to see initiative ont he part of students and I like to respond to questions where students do some thinking and research and put their ideas out there. Then we are responding to someone with whom we can become a co-sojourner in the scholarly quest. Some of us are idealists and respond better to students who get caught up in their assignments and bring their ideas/research to the table for discussion--not for the easy answer. I don't know you, obviously, and don't know the level of research you did. But the truth is, there are a lot of books out there now (unlike when I was a kid) on Bradbury's work. You have to research, and sometimes do some leg work. Posting a question out here is part of that, but not all of it. Glad you came out here, though; and hope you come out again out of interest.

Mr. Dark: Grabbing Ray at Dinner time one can't especially expect profound answers. He doesn't take time for tea and intellectual dissection of his works. He's said that already. It's rather a set of serious circumstances set up for Ray to start thinking about what he did or didn't do.

I'm sorry Atropsmar has not piped in and scooped up a few nuggest for class. I'm sure he would be the only one in class with those answers.

dandelion: noob? Oh oh. The generational gap must be happening. What's a noob? Webster scratched his head as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
Mr. Dark: Grabbing Ray at Dinner time one can't especially expect profound answers. He doesn't take time for tea and intellectual dissection of his works. He's said that already. It's rather a set of serious circumstances set up for Ray to start thinking about what he did or didn't do.

I'm sorry Atropsmar has not piped in and scooped up a few nuggest for class. I'm sure he would be the only one in class with those answers.

dandelion: noob? Oh oh. The generational gap must be happening. What's a noob? Webster scratched his head as well.

A noob is someone who is new at something... Anyways, I understand everyones feelings towards me, though it was hard to comprehend at first, but I assure you that I'm not one to ask others to do my work, and I'm hard worker. I guess the only way to convince you is to show you my research. So, even though I've handed it in already, I feel obliged to defend myself. Here's what i got, though it is more of a reference for the essay I'm suppose to write after christmas:

SHORT STORY TITLE: The Other Foot (1951)
- The Jim Crow Laws were state and local laws enacted in the Southern and border states of the United States and enforced between 1876 and 1965. Under Jim Crow, African Americans were relegated to the status of second class citizens, for it represented the legitimization of anti-Black racism. The most important laws required that public schools and most public places have separate facilities for whites and blacks; segregation. Also, Jim Crow states passed statutes severely regulating social interactions between the races; signs which directed and separated the two races from one another. The following was the norm in relation to the its laws, “Whites were superior to Blacks in all important ways, including but not limited to intelligence, morality, and civilized behavior; sexual relations between Blacks and Whites would produce a mongrel race which would destroy America; treating Blacks as equals would encourage interracial sexual unions; any activity which suggested social equality encouraged interracial sexual relations; if necessary, violence must be used to keep Blacks at the bottom of the racial hierarchy”. If African Americans were to violate the Jim Crow norms they risked homes, their jobs, even their lives. Whites could physically beat Blacks with impunity. Violence was instrumental for Jim Crow. It was a method of social control. The most extreme forms of Jim Crow violence were lynching’s.

- Post World-War II, Civil War. The fight between Americans and Russians was a devastating time due to the fear of a possible nuclear war, which began in the 40’s following WWII.

- The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. In retribution for the events that took place at Pearl Harbour, the US declared war against Japan and released the first atomic bomb on an unsuspecting Hiroshima. It was August 6, 1945 when the equivalence of 20000 tons of TNT was dropped on Hiroshima, Japan, which flattened the city, killing tens of thousands of civilians. While Japan was still trying to comprehend this devastation three days later, the United States struck again, this time, on Nagasaki, resulting in 70,000 mortalities.
__________________________________________________

SHORT STORY TITLE: Zero Hour (1947)
- On July 8, 1947, the Roswell Army Air Field issued a press release stating that personnel had recovered a crashed "flying disc" from a ranch near Roswell, which created intense media interest. Later the same day, the Commanding General of the Eighth Air Force stated that in fact, a weather balloon had been recovered rather than a "flying disc.”
- It seems that this work may have been inspired by the times for a great frenzy was created by the thought of extraterrestrial life. Bradbury seems enthralled by the idea of life outside of Earth, which obviously inspired his writing.

- On October 31, 1938, Orson Welles adaptation of H.G Wells, War of the Worlds, was performed on a radio show as a Halloween hoax. The live broadcast frightened many listeners into believing that an actual Martian invasion was in progress. The panic created due to the broadcast is examples of mass hysteria and delusions of the crowd. Welles's adaptation is possibly the most successful radio dramatic production in history. It was one of the Radio Project's first studies.
__________________________


SHORT STORY TITLE: The Visitor (1948)

__________________________________________________

SHORT STORY TITLE: Kaleidoscope (1949)
Since Bradbury was born in the 1920’s, he grew up in a time where space travel was only of the imagination, for its possibilities were endless. In 1942, the first man made object to leave earth’s atmosphere was achieved with the German V-2 Rocket; however it was only a small step to large ones made from the 50’s and on (Spaceflight). This phenomenon known as space travel most likely had a profound impact on Bradbury’s writing and on this work in particular, for he examines the human condition in the situation of a spaceship malfunction, which forced the its crew to be lost in space. As a child, Ray Bradbury was infatuated with space travel, “when I was 8 years old. The first stories I wrote when I was 12 were about Mars and landing on Mars. We’re all dreamers”. Also, this idea is further solidified by the fact that in the late 1930’s, Bradbury was in small groups of science fiction fans, which he, and others, constantly dreamt about going to the moon. He reflects upon this dream in the succeeding quote, “the important thing is to be in love with something”. Bradbury’s love was for space, which is evident in his work. “Space travel is one of the most beautiful things that has ever happened to mankind”.

__________________________________________________

SHORT STORY TITLE: The Man (1949)
Bradbury was a Baptist which most likely had an impact on him, perhaps inspiring him to write this short story.
__________________________________________________

The thing is Nard is that the anwsers you provided me from Ray Bradbury I had already collected days before, though it was only speculation. Since I do not have access to any biographical information all my research is based on speculations, which I will expand upon when I write the essay. I hope this constitutes for something... anyways, sorry for the hostility. Oh and this assignment has gained much interest in Bradbury and I because of it I am very eager to read Farenheit 451 and the Martian Chronicles.

Also, if you notice there is a large void where the man and the visitor are that is because I could not make a significant connection to the times or to Bradbury, which I was hoping someone could maybe fill.. anyways, my intention is sincere, please don't interpret different. Thanks everyone anyways.

atroposmar:

Great stuff! Hope you do well on your paper.

Bradbury is a great read. F451 and Martian Chronicles are great. Also, don't skip "Something Wicked This Way Comes". His short stories are also fantastic. Great collections (for me) were The October Country, S is for Space, R is for Rocket. He also has two large anthologies (which your library ought to have, if they don't request the librarian to order them), which are great collections of great stories.

Best Wishes and have a great holiday!

Mr. Dark

P.S. I am 51, and it is shocking to me that these race laws were on the books and enforced in my own lifetime. It seems so long ago. I was raised in L.A., California; so I didn't see the kind of overt, institutionalized racism manifest in those laws and in their inhumane enforcement.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Mr. Dark,

Mr. Dark:

I'll wager Bradbury would be mystified by the hoopla centered on dissecting his works and its meanings. About 15 or 20 years ago I recall someone discussing sexual references in the combinations of words Bradbury used and how it all unraveled along the imagination, of their meanings, and how they expressed the real logic behind the work. Bradbury, I recall, pretty much dismissed it all with a big laugh about the nonsense of such inspection.

However, perhaps if you took a Charles Dickens, or a George Bernard Shaw, or a Robert Loiuis Stevenson, and sat them in the room with Ray, being in a room of peers and those he fully admired, you may actually get a different view of the universe from Ray than you ever pre-imagined.

I would venture to guess that Ray really does not see much of where his stories come from except in the very obvious ones, like Pedestrian, and a few others, like Fog Horn, etc. But so many are lost in the murky soup of the creative mind at work with tools unseen. Like trying to remember a most fascinating dream when one awakes, and in the process of tracking down minute details, all turns to sand and everything, big and small, sifts quickly thru the fingers. It's not important. The finished product on the printed page is.

Well, I agree with you that Ray doesn't plan on writing stories with "meaning". He's pretty clear they are basically stories to him. I would also agree that he probably doesn't see a lot of the "meaning" in the stories.

But I disagree when you say the work of sifting through and trying to analyze the symbols, myths, word usage, etc., is "not important". I agree it is a different process and a different skill set; but that doesn't make it unimportant. I think reading the Bible for itself is pretty simple, and it could be argued that that is all that is needed. But several passages tell us to meditate upon the word. Why? Because an in-depth understanding of what is being said, what it means, and how to apply it to our lives, is important.

I think that literary scholarship is important because it helps us understand the meaning and significance of great literature. If Mr. Bradbury doesn't personally want to do the evaluation, that's fine. I'm very happy with him just writing great stories. But I enjoy the analytical work, and I think it is important.

Mr. Dark:

Looking to find where I said "not important." Didn't find it, but if it's there somewhere, I didn't mean it that way. I understand Bradbury may not want to analyze his works, but for the educator or scholar, that is certainly a different story.

Thanks Mr. Dark... I too find analytical work to be important because I believe it will seperate a good story from a story that will be remembered... Anyways, I acknowledge its too late now, but do you think there is anything else I should maybe consider? Oh and do you think my research was insightful? I hope it changed those dubious minds in regards of my intentions.

Good job! Welcome aboard, and happy Bradburian reading!

Hi Nard:

Last line in your 10:00 post. "It's not important." Although you could be referring to details of the creative process, and not the value of the analytic side of literature. Perhaps I jumped to a hasty conclusion on that one.

I understand Bradbury says he thinks it's (textual analysis) unimportant (or at least that he doesn't bother with it); but if he really feels that way, why does he talk about metaphors in his work so much? He's a little like Hemingway on this. Hemingway used to posit himself as a man's man--a kind of anti-intellectual. But in his house in Cuba alone he had over 8,000 books. He was very intelligent and very, very widely read. I think Bradbury is extremely creative, and he definitely likes to play that up. But if he really, really, never thought about the meaning of his works, why would he talk so much about metaphors? Metaphors, outside pure emotion, don't mean much until you figure out what the metaphor is getting at.

Nard: Have a fantastic Christmas!! And if you see Ray, please tell him Merry Christmas for me.

Atroposmar (what does that mean?): I think you did well on your work. If I were you, I'd get on Amazon and look into three books (in addition to reading straight Bradbury, of course):

"The Bradbury Chronicles", by Sam Weller (biography). Sam worked for about four years with Ray on this book. It is good reading and has a lot of good information in it.

"Ray Bradbury: The Life of Fiction". by William Toupponce. In my mind, the best critical work on Bradbury's work to date.

Also, check out "Conversations with Ray Bradbury". It is a collection of interviews over about a 40 year period. They are really interesting. You'll get a feel for his personality and he talks a lot about his writing influences and background.

Hope everyone has a great Christmas and NY.