"Seek" Absolutely seems like a prominent theme in parts of Bradbury's writing, at least. It may be an overall theme. I don't know if you've read this whole string, but at least a couple people have made that suggestion.

You'll need to give some examples and show what kinds of seeking he's talking about. Is the seeking fruitful or is it just the best there is? Are there examples of seeking that has led to fulfillment or peace? Are there methods or assumptions of seeking that cross stories?

Space exploration itself is a kind of seeking, isn't it?

A lot of fun things to check out. Was it Bradbury who said you have to read like a detective, or am I thinking of someone else?

In reply to Mr. Dark, yes I have read the whole confusing string of comments. Very interresting.
I have a few comments of my own for Mr. Kordell. Regarding your 3rd post on this topic, posted on 1.31.03, you made the comment...>>>>>But there is nothing redeemable about evil...
There is nothing to learn about evil, except that it will destroy ...who you really are. That is its only intent.<<<<<
Maybe I am reading this comment wrong and maybe im just confused and messed up but I happen to dissagree with it. I think there is something to learn from evil, seeing as the comment was made earlier that it comes from within.
My theory is this...
You have good and bad within, and the choice to use both of them. So with the power to destroy yourself, also comes the power of saving yourself. Evil is not all powerful. So, I think, there is sort of an "awe" that a "dark" creature can have when seeing that good can destroy his evil being, who he is. It goes both ways. I hear the words on this board come from and only good over bad point of view, but what about the other way around? What if the "dark side" views the good as being "evil"? If you seek both ways and say light can be just as bad as dark can, then you find new things, new powers, and either or can be lovely to you.

Now concerning (Mr. Kordell) another one of your comments...I believe on your second post you state...>>>>>>>"Seek the Lovely"...is what I believe is the bottom line..but.... like in Something Wicked This Way Comes...people were drawn into things they thought were Lovely.... so it has a danger to it....<<<<
I have not read the book, so I do not know what those things are that they were drawn to. But, words have different connotations to different people. The word lovely can signify different objects to different minds, I hope you follow me on this so far. Light may be lovely to one and dark may be to another. So there is danger on both sides...danger is only a perception...Light can be just as "dangerous". I hope you got that, for I just forgot what I was ranting about...I think I have it again...That "seeking the lovely" can be seeking on both sides, seeking all, so in essence, Bradbury is saying just plain "seek dammit, and learn from it"

Bradbury's world is so rich, I'm sure there are multiple, and perhaps even contradictory, themes running through his work.

I think it's entirely possible to argue that Bradbury's tells us the opposite of "seek" -- that he asks us to be happy in the moment, to appreciate what we have, that life is a wonderful gift.

"The Man" seems to be a story about a foolish persistence in seeking, "Something Wicked" warns of the danger of longing and regret overpowering us, "The Happiness Machine" has a similar message of finding "the lovely" right in our own backyard rather than looking elsewhere, you could interpret the "The Rocket Man" as a warning against seeking some far flung adventure at the expense of the love of your family...

Originally posted by WritingReptile:


I think it's entirely possible to argue that Bradbury's tells us the opposite of "seek" -- that he asks us to be happy in the moment, to appreciate what we have, that life is a wonderful gift.

Writing Reptile, you are so correct here! At this very moment in time: always ask---Is it right? Am I right with the world? And for now, most of us can say: YES!

The future is what haunts us all. Especially now, with a new level of security pronounced. Grab this moment, everyone. It might never come again.

Celestial

[This message has been edited by Celestial but in ways that amaze her. (edited 02-07-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Celestial (edited 02-07-2003).]

Hello, Mr. Slimfender, (Hey, how about an origin story from you about your user name?)

In your posts above to Mr. Kordell, I believe you're practicing moral relativism: What may be bad for me may be good for another. I disagree. I believe in certain areas regarding good and evil you have to take a stand. Otherwise, what's the point of confronting evil in books like Something Wicked? In your view, the title would have to be changed to Something Which May or May Not be Wicked, Depending on Your Point of View, This Way Comes.

I believe Ray takes a stand and insists that others do so as well. In fact, in Zen, he says that's the key to his writing. Waking up with an idea in his head, then taking arms either for or against it and battling it out on paper.

(Though my vote for best alternative title to the book is Steve Martin's: In his introduction of Ray when Ray was to be presented his Lifetime Award (or some such thing) from the National Book Award people, Martin joked that he understood the original title was Look Out, Here Comes Something Wicked.)

Pete

The question of relativity is the thing that makes the claim that Bradbury's underlying message is simply, "To Seek," difficult for me to accept. In "The Blue Bottle," the message is clear that different people sought different things. The ones who sought the "wrong" things were destroyed. The ones who sought the "right" things were blessed/rewarded.

While it is correct that many were drawn to the "dark" side in "Something Wicked This Way Comes," I'm not sure they were actually "seeking" it. They seemed to be missing happiness and/or satisfaction in their lives. As pointed out above, they were burdened with disappointment and regret and fear. When these "evil" things presented themselves, they kind of filled a need that existed. Again, I'm not sure these characters sought out evil, as much as evil found weak spots in resistence to it, and came crashing through. In either case, whether they sought it out or not, those who made the "evil" choice became trapped by those choices. In Bradbury's world, a lack of freedom is never a good thing.

In many of Bradbury's works, he seems to favor things like faith, love, honesty, etc. I don't really see much relativity in his works. When I say this, I don't mean that different people don't find satisfaction in different things, but that when it comes to moral absolutes (like love, freedom and honesty), there's very little "waffle room" in his works. Clearly, as pointed out above, there is no moral ambivalence about the Dark Carnival's role in the scheme of things. It is evil.

Yet the freedom to seek is critical in Bradbury's works. People have to be able to make their own choices. There is no room in Bradbury's world for totalitarianism -- whether of the body or mind.


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 02-08-2003).]

Oh, oh! Here I go, writing posts at 2 in the morning....so briefly....

slimfender:::::
Everything I'm posting here is being done from a Christian perspective. I am, nonetheless...still human, but with a very different perspective, and still learning. If I look one way, I can see my old self with a perplexing and confused ideology; to another direction, truth! Some learn it quite easily, and I am always marveling at these people; others never, and that's a mystery; and there are others in between these two points. I fall somewhere in the middle....taking a long, long time to understand and experience the most simple truths. But that's me....

One thing that I am learning more and more, little by little, is that there is absolutely no good thing in 'evil'. In 'Something wicked this way comes', for instance, the town barber was drawn into the circus sideshow by his Lust, his sexual lust. He becomes a freak in Mr., Dark's sideshow.

The more I am learning about Ray's theology, I more I am beginning to tred lightly upon his prose, because the bottom line of his writings seem to be ...uncertain, about God, about eternity. I stopped by Ray's house year a half ago, with my wife, and got into the discussion...Are you going to heaven when you die? And never got an answer.

I have to say this right off the bat....I cannot judge Ray. I love the man, but I can only judge...believers. "Judgment begins in the house of the Lord, and if judgment is to be severe with the believer, what, then, is to be the outcome of one who does not believe?" That's somewhere in Paul's epistles.....(at 2 AM, I am NOT looking it up right now...)
Ray was extremely instrumental in my ... "coming to know the Lord as my Saviour...", and it has been a great 'seeking' on my part....knowing him..

But evil has only ONE purpose... to slap the face of God, and it is done..by destroying the purpose of each soul... that God has for that individual...and evil does this by, ultimately, destroying the soul itself...

Ever seen the old yin/yang symbol? A circle with a black thing with a white dot like a fisheye, and a white thing with a black fisheye dot, to symbolize that in good there is some evil, and in evil some good. Of course, perhaps that's only in this world. In the next existence they must be separated, although in Eastern philosophy, that would be a long ongoing process, not a one-time one.

I'm not sure I think the yin-yang symbolizes that there is good in evil so much as it indicates that good and evil necessarily co-exist (at least in this level of existence).

While I agree with Nard that evil is never good (in and of itself), I believe (and more to the point, I think Bradbury believes) that we live in a world where they co-exist and that often good COMES OUT OF evil. Not that evil sought to cause good, or that there is good inherent in evil; but that sometimes in struggling through evil we become more mature spiritual beings. Our lives are richer, we are stronger, we are more grateful for the good.

I think this is the case in "Something Wicked This Way Comes". Charles Halloway suffers from fear and regret and that suffering is killing him. It is in overcoming Mr. Dark and the carnival that he becomes stronger. If Mr. Dark had not come, if Charles Halloway had not had to combat evil to save the two boys, he would not have become the strong figure he ends up being.

So while I don't think that good inheres in evil, I think that good can come out of the struggle with evil.

And now, to close with a Bible lesson:

" . . . though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the trial of your faith,, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ." (I Peter 1:6,7)

The idea that the struggle with evil can either make us stronger or overcome us seems to be a common theme to both Mr. Bradbury and the Bible. In Bradbury the outcome of the struggle is always the result of freely made choices, in the Biblical realm the question of freedom, accountability and pre-destination are hotly debated.

That is the exact answer I wanted from you guys...to prove my point that was not made on this board. I know this sounds weird, but I put that absurd remark on here to see what would come of it, because I was not able to really understand the stuff before the second page! Now I have it! This information will help me greatly in my project. Ahhhh...relief.

I also enjoyed the humor with the new book titles...got a big laugh out of it.

Now to my name! It's actually, Ms. Slimfender...no offense taken. Slimfender...where did i pick that up from...well, I am a huge guitar junky, and fender is my favourite brand, so there's the fender part of it...as for slim...I have no idea...my friends and I were messing around with names for a new email address I wanted, and that's what we came up with. I have used it as my website domain, which is NOT up right now...but if you would like to know when i get it rolling again, I could sure drop a link on the board! It's not a very exciting story to my name, it just is what it is.

Again, thank you for so elegantly replying to my comment!

[This message has been edited by slimfender (edited 02-09-2003).]

Dear Ms. Slimfender,

Well, that's what I get for assuming things. Slim sounds like the perfect name for a Fender-guitar slinger. Sounds kinda bluesy, in a way. As for your website address, I know I'm speaking out of line but I'm sure no one would object to posting it here once you have it up and running.

Pete

Blues! That's it! I love blues....wait...I remember why I chose slim as part of my name...I'm not sure if any of you are familiar with Lauren Bacall in "To Have and Have Not"...old black and white movie with Bogart in it...well her nick name in the movie and, I think, off the set between her and bogie was "slim" and I just think she's so pretty. So, that's where that came from! About my site, thanks Pete. I am currently exploring some content ideas for the site...maybe someone would like to give me input *?* but it is not necessary.

Sorry for a long pause.
What about hedgehog - I was not attacked by them Just it is my nickname. In russian it is written like that: ��. Only two letters. I think it is very good that I've found this site. It's design is very very nice and all the company is also kind and wisdom.

I guess I'd say it's "live life to the fullest" and to get the full experience of life, you cannot avoid the dark side of it. Ray's writings focus on death, but also rejoice in life. I think that's why Halloween is such a recurring theme in his work. It's a cultural celebration in which we ponder death and also life. And boy does it have some cool iconography!

Posters All:::

After reading many of these postings and thinking it over for awhile I believe that...

...it is his very close family upbringing that shapes his love, and forms the message of his writing. People like....Aunt Neva, for instance, and the hours spent on summer porches where uncles and father, mother, and family...interchanging their philosophy, but each forming a spiritual plasma of caring and love and a vision that has propelled Ray into the future.....If these were not the footings for Mr. Bradbury, we 'may' have seen a very different person. This is not to say that he 'would' not have turned out the same....the very core of who he is has not been fathomed, and may never... does any of us sufficiently fathom the very depths of who we are?

But his prose are so lovely, his narrations so wonderful, his overall span of story telling so endearing, that a family that loved him and that he loved...has to be the very pivotal and poignant base of his gift.....

It is complex...to adequately explain the bottom line of what Ray is trying to say, when he is immersed in a bath of the love of a family who loved him....and now thru the years, returns the love with his writing?