Very good observations from douglasSP. I suppose it all depends on your definition of science fiction. I think "Assassin" is possibly best classified as horror, if you are considering the effect it has on the reader. On the other hand, if you are looking at how the story explains itself, it can be seen as science fiction.

Incidentally, Bradbury's own differentiation between SF and fantasy was primarily drawn at the level of what is possible: if it is possible, it's SF; if it's impossible, it's fantasy. Hence, for Ray, THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES was fantasy, but FAHRENHEIT 451 was SF. I suspect he thought "Assassin" was impossible, and therefore saw it as fantasy. But it isn't up to the author! Every reader is entitled to come to an informed opinion.

I didn't make it clear, the assignment is suppose to be about the same author. So, I am going to go ahead and read the veldt, the murder,& pedestrian because those are the stories I have in my possession already. Unfortunately,I don't have Zero Hour and Small Assassin may be to ambiguous and I want to make it somewhat easy on myself because it is crunch time for me...ughhh ... Thank you for all the help!! This has been such a blessing to find this forum . Yay!!!

Sounds like a good plan, Sideshow mermaid. When you've read "The Veldt", "The Murderer" and "The Pedestrian", you can always come back to us if you want to discuss them.

As you can see, we do enjoy discussing Bradbury stories!

I've thought about the definition of science fiction a lot, and have found definitions by even the most distinguished commentators to be unsatisfactory.

So although this is hardly the place for it, I would suggest the following:

Science fiction may concern either the possible or the impossible - but in both cases it is cast in a tone of rationality, possibility and scientific plausibility.

One observation: if the subject matter is "possible", it must venture well beyond what has actually been experienced. So I would argue that the new Sandra Bullock movie (the name of which I've already forgotten) is SF after all, despite protestations to the contrary.

Another observation: Libraries of SF works are based on premises that can't be scientifically supported - but they're still SF. It's about the way the material is presented.

A third (and, for now, last) observation: Science fiction is a broad church. OF COURSE The Martian Chronicles is science fiction. So is Star Wars. Genre classification is not a cattle brand. You can see these works as belonging to other genres as well; just don't say they're not science fiction. That's absurd.

That is a great summary douglasSP, it puts things in perspective. I will be back after I read everything, I want to make sure I understand what I read, so I'll be picking it apart on here for sure!!! See you all soon

quote:

Originally posted by douglasSP:
...OF COURSE The Martian Chronicles is science fiction. So is Star Wars. Genre classification is not a cattle brand. You can see these works as belonging to other genres as well; just don't say they're not science fiction. That's absurd.

Did you ever try saying that to Ray? He was the one who classed MC as fantasy... while the rest of the world called it science fiction (and some people criticised it for being bad science fiction, for the very reason (it's impossible) that HE gave for considering it to be fantasy!).

I agree with you, douglasSP, about the way the material is presented. Some critics talk about SF as being an "affect" (meaning a feeling, a disposition, etc).

I also agree that MC and STAR WARS are OBVIOUSLY science fiction - because they are clearly engaged in some grander dialogue with everything that had gone before in the genre of SF. This is what some critics refer to as the "megatext" of SF.

The other major area for defining SF involves the "novum", the "novelty" at the heart of the story which is commonly supposed to be a plausible element which is different from reality, and from which the story naturally flows. Time travel. Invisibility. Genetically resurrected dinosaurs. Plausibility is in the eye of the beholder, and I susbscribe to H.G.Wells' idea: use a fantastical element to create illusion that an impossibility was really possible - and then get the story over with as quickly as possible while the illusion still holds.

Ray had to be taken with a pinch of salt when it came to whether The Martian Chronicles was science fiction or not.

If you interviewed him decades after The Martian Chronicles was published, he was always quite happy to speak from the perspective of a science fiction writer - "The reason why I write science fiction..." etc.

I think he wanted the widest possible audience for his work; he didn't want it categorised in any limiting way. In other words, he didn't want The Martian Chronicles to be seen as "science fiction, and nothing more".

Also, he disliked restrictive genre classifications of his work, because science fiction has always carried a bit of a "talking squids in space" stigma, and Ray wanted to engage his friends, colleagues and critics in the world of "mainstream" literature in serious dialogue about his work.

"Fantasy" has a slightly more respectable image - after all, Dickens and stuffy Cambridge dons wrote it - so I think that's why he said what Phil mentioned above.

A fine debate!

When one becomes familiar with the spectrum of works Mr. Bradbury penned, it is evident his stories were cut from varied cloths. Though he consistently stated Fahrenheit 451 was the only true SF story he ever wrote, so many others can be enjoyed for the classic sf flavor they offer.

Along with MC, his short stories abound with such leanings (esp. Illustrated Man collection). However, when we look back on the fields into which he so magnificently ventured, it is easy to understand why his desire was to avoid having his life's works placed onto a single Sci-Fi shelf.

Dandelion Wine and Green Shadows, White Whale are two poetic narratives of his life: one of tells of the bumps and scrapes from his childhood town in Illinois; while the other speeds along narrow roads and tips pints of ale in bars across Ireland.

Yestermorrow tells of ways to perfect social gathering locales and make the most of resources available. Then, you read of a Wonderful White Suit that makes young men's dreams come true. How can that be? Not sure, you say! Then read on, and pick up Halloween Tree and fantasize the great celebrations of youth, fears, and friendship again...as All-Hallows arrives.

Dark Stories you want? Go way back and visit the Carnival or feast on some Golden Apples! Spirits, ghosts and vampires? They all are seen wandering home From the Dust Returned.

Not convinced quite yet RB needs several shelves?! Turn pages in a book of poetry and hear the influences of Hopkins, Frost, Dickinson, and Teasdale. Too name a few...

In teaching RB, rarely did I think only of SF stuff. Instead, legends, myths, dreams, fantasies, lessons, warnings, reflections, and life!
(How enjoyable he made it for me.)

quote:

Originally posted by fjp451:
A fine debate!...

Yes, indeed! I wish we had more discussion like this on the boards.

This is from the Paris Review interview:

INTERVIEWER

Why do you write science fiction?

RAY BRADBURY

Science fiction is the fiction of ideas. Ideas excite me, and as soon as I get excited, the adrenaline gets going and the next thing I know I’m borrowing energy from the ideas themselves. Science fiction is any idea that occurs in the head and doesn’t exist yet, but soon will, and will change everything for everybody, and nothing will ever be the same again. As soon as you have an idea that changes some small part of the world you are writing science fiction. It is always the art of the possible, never the impossible.

Imagine if sixty years ago, at the start of my writing career, I had thought to write a story about a woman who swallowed a pill and destroyed the Catholic Church, causing the advent of women’s liberation. That story probably would have been laughed at, but it was within the realm of the possible and would have made great science fiction. If I’d lived in the late eighteen hundreds I might have written a story predicting that strange vehicles would soon move across the landscape of the United States and would kill two million people in a period of seventy years. Science fiction is not just the art of the possible, but of the obvious. Once the automobile appeared you could have predicted that it would destroy as many people as it did.

INTERVIEWER

Does science fiction satisfy something that mainstream writing does not?

BRADBURY

Yes, it does, because the mainstream hasn’t been paying attention to all the changes in our culture during the last fifty years. The major ideas of our time—developments in medicine, the importance of space exploration to advance our species—have been neglected. The critics are generally wrong, or they’re fifteen, twenty years late. It’s a great shame. They miss out on a lot. Why the fiction of ideas should be so neglected is beyond me. I can’t explain it, except in terms of intellectual snobbery.

See http://www.theparisreview.org/...-no-203-ray-bradbury

It's quite clear (to me, anyway), that Ray is accepting the mantle of "science fiction writer" for this interview. It's also clear that he isn't talking only about Fahrenheit 451 and nothing else. These are very general reflections on his work.

So - Ray took different positions at different times.

quote:

Originally posted by philnic:
Yes, indeed! I wish we had more discussion like this on the boards.

Then I shall add: I've never considered The Martian Chronicles science fiction in the slightest. Just because it takes place in space doesn't mean it's science fiction. To me, at least, it's very obviously compleat fantasy. Even nostalgia. It's more related to Dandelion Wine or Winesburg, Ohio than it is to a real science fiction novel (like Fahrenheit 451, for instance). It's almost poetry. Again, the setting of a story doesn't dictate the genre of the story. I just don't feel like I'm reading a science fiction story when I read it. Others can (and will) have different reactions to it, I'm sure.

Hi everyone, I am back after reading my chosen storys for my assignment...anyways...my take on the three tales ( The Veldt, Murder and Pedestrian)I chose is that each story can be seen as having a multiple layer of themes depending on how one interprets them. I saw that each tale could be a warning to humanity , that we may become to dependent on technology thus we may loose our individuality and our own sense of humanity. I also saw them as a metaphor for the persecution of the minority, meaning those who have individual thoughts are seen as a threat to the majority rule of the collective mind or state, which could be seen as a political warning as well. Also, the lost of individual control, that we can loose ourselves within the new world order of technological ease ,that we forget how to govern our own rights or our children's disciplinary needs. I really can't believe how true The Murder rings for society now days, with everyone on Facebook ,constantly updating their wherabouts and what they are eating/drinking, and how having cell phones has brought the personal conversation into the public space. Anyways, my mind is boggled on how so much rings true through Bradbury's story telling. Now, I am just confused on what I should focus on for my thesis theme, there is so much going on...HELP....ughhh

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Sideshow mermaid,

That sounds like an accurate summation of those stories and what connects them. I don't know what you exact assignment question is, but I would say that you could simply expand each of the points you made, and use specific elements from each story to "prove" your points.

The exact assignment reads, "The short story was a particularity important form during the golden age of SF. Analyze a few stories by a representative author,focusing on a specific theme or technique of that author. You may use an author we have read, or I can direct you to dozens of others."

...then I stand by what I said: I think your earlier post already has an answer to that assignment. It just needs expanding through the use of examples.