Mr. Dark: Thanks for info...have to check it out later..

Of course there is the verse that says, "...by your fruits you will know them..."....and by reading Ray's written works, you try to determine his beliefs, his views. But in my case, I have had the great opportunities to ask him over a number of times, about his beliefs.
In my last couple posts, I am stating pretty much what I ultimately came away with....

[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 03-07-2003).]

Thanks Mr. Dark for keeping this subject matter alive and well on the message board. Your elequant appraisal delves into the deepest corners of possibilities and comes up with insightful considerations.

fjpalumbo, thanks for posting "Spiritual Aspects of Creativity in the Next 100 Years." It offers a glimpse into Bradbury's spiritual mindset. I particularly like the reference to the familiar image of God's hand connecting with man's. I wonder when the piece was written since Nard's comments seem to suggest RB has a more simplistic and perhaps synical approach to spirituality.

C.

Celestial:

Any handy god... is appropriate for some....

The devil believes in God... When an unfallen angel, he was in heaven. But even now, still has access to heaven and talks with God... (Read 1st part of Job)

India has 10's of thousands of gods...They have a god for anything you can think of...

The most primitive of peoples have personalities carved into stone denoting...god!!

Native American Indians had a concept of god, seen even in clouds....

Ray Bradbury writes about god. (small 'g' or capital 'G'?)

Nard,

If the devil is the only one talking to God, then I'm sure we're all doomed. Do you really think God listens so carefully to evil?

I talk to God daily. Why are you willing to disqualify the spiritual integrity of a literary icon who demonstrates such passion about life? Forgive me if I have interpreted you words too harshly, or feel free to elaborate on the differences between Bradbury's spirituality and your verson of faith, which obviously serves you well.

On judgement day, will God think any less of R.B. because of his beliefs?

C.

[This message has been edited by Celestial (edited 05-14-2003).]

Short blip and then (conceding to old age) I'm hitting the sack.

I don't think Ray is cynical toward religion. He may have a cynicism toward "organized" religion and "narrow" or "fixed" dogmas, and I think he is not particulary tolerant of religion as a means of separating people; but I see many of his writings as being quite religious.

I see religion as operating on several levels. If you can't buy that premise, then it may be that it will hard to see Ray as a religious/spiritual writer. For me, one of the drivers of religion is this internal quest we all seem to have have to find the good, and to find or create meaning in our lives. This aspect of religion is manifest in Ray's writings in spades. I think that's why he is often read with a religious sensitivity. Ray is always involved in the quest for meaning and the good. In my mind, this quest is a fundamental part of what religion "does".

When religion is defined more narrowly (and it certainly seems legitimate for each person to define what religion "is" or "does" for them) then those who define religion in a more limited scope will see Ray as writing outside the scope of what religion is and thus discredit or dismiss the religious elements of his writing.

In his writing, I see a sincere, passionate religious sensitivity at work. One thing I'm looking at right now in Ray's work is the question of what that religious sensitivity consists of.

That's what I'm looking at on this string, and the personal reading I'm doing in Ray right now is along those lines. The published poetry and stories that deal with (what I view to be) religious activities and issues.

Celestial:::
I said...?????WHAT??????

Better yet, go to a comment I made yesterday...

It's under:
�RAY'S LEGACY�
...with the topic heading of:
�RAY BRADBURY'S MAGIC�

Scroll down to 3 / 7 / '03 at 6:11 PM for my comment...............
....maybe that'll clarify things......



[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 03-08-2003).]

Nard,

I just returned from the post office to find your clarification, directing me to your previouse post. Duly noted.

Perhaps we are all gleeful receipiants of Ray's magic, but in assorted varities much like a box of chocolate (Sorry, Mr. Gump)!

In the wee hours of the morning your reference to the Devil had an unsettling affect on me. Your further indication that RB makes no distinction between gods and God managed to further unnerve my overtired mind.

As far as Indians having many gods, I interpret it as a belief that God is everywhere, in the air we breathe, the rivers that flow and the mountains and valleys that He blesses the earth with.
I must have a little bit of Indian in me because I sense God is all around us, as well. Since God is infinite, it stands to reason He could never be contained within one body or spirit. His abstract presence is beyond mortal comprehension, therefore any possibility can exist.

C.

I revisited the top posting by Mr. Dark in this string again I agree and feel in common with the views stated there, particularly the quote from Ray about entering the Mystery. I sent the following little "prayer" to Ray and he wrote back that he enjoyed it, in fact he wrote that on a book inscription I now treasure greatly.

Great Mystery, still unknown,
Help us to live without fear
To:
Respect all life around us,
even as our own;
Value kindness over strength;
Listen, and not lecture;
Value friendship over possessions;
Seek balance, not excess;
See life as a process and a journey;
Use our time wisely and discover that
we are a part of the
Mystery, and thus have purpose in our moment.
With knowledge may we gain understanding;
Through understanding may we lessen fear;
Through change may we gain wisdom;
May nurturing life bring purpose to our lives;
May purpose lead to love;
With love may we reach harmony
within the Great Mystery


[This message has been edited by patrask (edited 03-08-2003).]

Celestial:
I'm not one to tell you what time to go to bed, but after reading your post, I would recommend you get a little more sleep... you know...so you feel fresh and alert in the morning.....

Nard,

Quit skirting the issue. I'm not on the attack, meerly seeking answers.

C.

Really...!?

This should shake up things a bit....

Seeking answers? Why not read what President George Bush is meditating on at 5 AM each morning, during this crisis. It's a book entitled, "My Utmost for His Highest." written around the turn of the century by a Scotman, who died in 1917 Egypt, is a meditation book, in daily readings...The President's reading this morning, March 8th, 2003, was entitled:
'The Surrendered Life'
It starts off:
'To become one with Jesus Christ, a person must be willing not only to give up sin, but also to surrender his whole way of looking at things..."

Tomorrow, March 9th, his reading is entitled:
Turning Back or Walking with Jesus?
It starts off:
"What a penetrating question! Our Lord's words often hit home for us when He speaks in the simpliest way. In spite of the fact that we know who Jesus is, He asks, "Do you also want to go away?" We must continually maintain an adventurous attitude toward Him, despite any potential personal risk."


[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 03-08-2003).]

"Topic: Bradbury's religious views . . . From/in his words"

:-)



[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 03-09-2003).]

Nard,

I appreciate your information concerning our leader's daily reading habits, since he is in my daily prayers as well. Perhaps if we all collectively focus on his morning meditations, God would be inclined to oblidge our concerted efforts. Dawn is the most spiritual time of day: free of the day's first sin and able to achieve greatness.

It seems at times like this it all comes down to personal truths.

Sleep well tonight. I know I will.

C.

Keep trying, Mr. Dark.

Celestial....
Personal Truths...is the heresy of every age....It always ignores that there are laws beyond our personal truths....laws that ultimately govern ...