Ah, Miss Dandelion, so you've been here on the Bradbury board, as well as the TZ board? (I haven't seen you at ABE lately...) I continue to be amazed at how you find the time to be so articulate on so many forums! I haven't been here much as of late--just not enough hours in the day. Recently I've tended to spend my time on the ABE booksleuth and community boards (and you know, you are the one that got me started there--first heard about booksleuth from you, on this board). I've also recently discovered a very tiny board dedicated to Alexander Key, another favourite author...

I was happy to hear of the TZ forums, which I haven't checked out as of yet, but will try to do so soon. I'm a big fan of the show--still waiting for the time when CBS (or whoever has the rights) gets their act together and releases the show season by season on DVD. The current haphazard release of four random episodes per disc is simply ridiculous.

And I was most interested in hearing of the Serling/Bradbury connection. I hadn't known much about it before, other than the facts given in a few pages of "The Twilight Zone Companion." I don't know... Seems to me that those two would never have gotten along, regardless of any professional disagreements. They are very different personality types, and in society in general there are people who simply will never get along with each other, no matter what--they don't see the world, or react to it, in the same way. Unfortunately, I don't think we will get an ubiased viewpoint of the whole situation in the upcoming biography, which after all is all based on Ray's recollections. So who knows what the complete story is there.

I will venture to say, however, that Bradbury's ability to utterly and completely disregard those people or opinions which disagree with his own viewpoints is not necessarily an admirable character trait. While it can be considered being strong-willed--having a clear vision, and "standing up for what you believe in" and all that--it also comes very close to being pigheaded and close-minded. I think we have to be at least open to the ideas and opinions of others; willing to consider alternate viewpoints a bit, without instantly dismissing or denigrating what others have to say. The interchange of ideas and opinions can help a person stretch his mental boundries.... (I've had this problem in my relationship with my own brother, so perhaps I'm projecting here. But said brother is so very vocal about proclaiming his own viewpoints --often about religion and politics, topics sure to cause strife in the most polite of conversations!--that he leaves absolutely no room whatsoever for any deviation of what he considers the "right" way to think. And so unfortunately we are not as close as we once were--there just doesn't seem to be much to talk about anymore, since we can't have real give-and-take conversations.)

Any discussion of Rod and Ray of course invites comparisons of their respective television shows. And I feel so very disloyal for saying so, but "Ray Bradbury Theater" comes off the worse for this. Much as I love Ray's written work, I think that over half of the episodes of his show were simply terrible. A Bradbury story requires a very special touch to bring it to life, and I really believe that Bradbury himself is not the person to adapt his own material, and write the scripts. Of course, "The Twilight Zone" had more than its share of clunkers. But there were so many episodes of that produced over the course of five years (when a typical television season may consist of thirty or thirty-five episodes) that the really excellent episodes are remembered, while the duds have been forgotten.

Oh, one last thing... I am looking forward to the upcoming biography for some insight on Ray's personal and family life. I have no idea whatsoever what his relationships with other family members were like, for the most part. His work doesn't seem to reflect too much of that aspect of his life. (As compared to, say, someone like Madeleine L'Engle, whose work is all about family and friendships--you can tell how she felt about such things by reading any one of her books.) As for your quote "His brother, Skip, achieved nothing and reportedly hated Ray." .... Is that really true? I had no idea! Though what exactly what does "achieved nothing" mean? As a staunch underachiever myself, (and let's face it, I'm the type who will be utterly forgotten the instant I die!), I would like to say that it is possible to have a pleasant and productive life without achieving greatness in any way!

I've only read random tidbits on the Bradbury/Sterling relationship. I haven't met Sterling, but have met Bradbury twice. He was the most pleasant "celebrity" I've ever met. (Along with Ansel Adams -- both great guys.) The fact that he's strong-willed and confident does not necessarily mean that he's narrow-minded and unwilling to learn. I think you DO get a feel about his childhood and feelings about that in "Dandelion Wine" and in "Something Wicked This Way Comes". While he may not be as transparent and self-revelatory as some other writers, I'm hard-pressed to believe these two books don't reflect his feelings on family, his own youth, friendships, and what it means to be a human and a part of a community.

I'm looking foward to Weller's biography, also; and imagine that -- while it is the official biography -- Sam will be honest and even-handed in it.


[This message has been edited by Mr. Dark (edited 03-27-2004).]

Thanks for noticing, octobercountry. I wonder what the ABE gang has been up to, whether any others among them missed me, and if and when I'll catch up. I was without my computer for about a week, (or, it seemed like,) and plugging away on Web TV--a slow job even with a working keyboard, and mine is less than perfect. It was way too much of a burden to keep up with ABE and other forums, so I dropped them and just stayed with old Ray and Rod. When it became necessary to do the huge job of editing this thread to post to the TZ site--a two-hour job on a regular computer, and an utter impossibility on Web TV--I had to go to a library computer.

It's questionable when or even whether I'll catch up on other forums for two reasons: one, it is coming into my busiest time of year for doing any house and yard projects and also any projects involving leaving the house or yard (that is, driving--since the roads are better.) Two, I promised Ray I'd finish a chapter of that novel a week, which I think I'd better do! Now that my computer is back and I actually have a WORKING printer (!), there's just no excuse not to!

I think my position on the Bradbury/Serling dispute is pretty plain. As an artist, I prefer Bradbury. As a person, I no doubt prefer Bradbury, too, but I still refuse to negate Rod's influence on me artistically or put him down as a person. As far as the personality thing: yes, he rubbed Ray the wrong way and I have no way of knowing whether he'd have the same effect on me as I didn't know him, though so many people were well-disposed to him I like to think I'd have liked him. Both Sam and this other individual who it's not necessary to name, though, were completely convinced by Ray's negative perceptions of Rod. I don't believe that William F. Nolan, George Clayton Johnson, and others who KNEW them both were, and, having examined the evidence, neither am I. I agreed with this poster on the Serling board that Rod did some very wrong and bad things which had either of us been married to him he'd have caught hell for (she says she'd have divorced him, and I'm not inclined to disagree). I don't, however, think he should be viewed as a total villain--particularly for things he may not have even done! I have no reason to believe Sam's biography won't be fair and accurate--just a very gentle caveat not to take everything Ray says at absolute face value as Ray has been known to be just a tiny bit biased on certain matters.

I had to laugh at your description of Ray's viewpoint. Wishy-washy, he is not. That is GREAT, when you want a DEFINITE answer--which I did when I called him up and asked what steps to take regarding my novel. The response couldn't have been more plain and clear, and was just what I needed! Don't try arguing with him on any subject on which he has an opinion, though. I've tried to make him see other points of view on several issues, and he only gives two answers: "that's not what I said," a variation being, "you totally misunderstood what I said," or a reiteration of his original view and his reasons for it. Period. There is just not much exchange of debate.

What I said about his brother comes from a certain person, again, not necessary to name, but this person, raised an only child and currently bringing up an only child, has completely missed (and perhaps in some ways idealized) the sibling aspect of existence. When he saw Ray and Skip together, he was dismayed to note, "There is NOTHING between them." They had a conversation of sorts, then when Skip was gone, Ray said, regretfully but matter-of-factly, "Skip hates me, and I don't blame him." As for "accomplished nothing": I saw in a writeup on Ray, in "Current Biography" or a similar source, that Skip had aspirations of writing. I don't know if it is true, but for over twenty years I have kept careful track of everything published under the name of Bradbury to list Ray's work, and have never seen anything by Leonard "Skip" Bradbury. It's my understanding he became an electric lineman like their father, married, and returned to live in the midwest. I don't know the size of his family or whether he is still alive.

That's funny what you said about your brother because Rod had the same problem with his brother, Bob. Unlike Ray and Skip--who were only four years apart, but I believe were never close, even as children--very different personalities--Rod and Bob were close despite being about six and a half years apart. Rod was a complete and total bleeding heart liberal to a ridiculous degree, unable even to see any downside to the liberal left-wing viewpoint. Well, one time he and Bob got into an argument about politics which turned into a major shouting match with name-calling and all. They were so appalled they agreed never to discuss politics again for the good of their relationship!

I haven't seen all of "Ray Bradbury Theater" but of what I have seen must totally agree with you. The ones which really struck me were "Exorcism" and "The Murderer"--two of the funniest stories I have ever read and two of the least funny shows I ever saw.

Hey Miss Dandelion!

Well, we'll miss you over on ABE if you're simply too busy to drop by. I'll have to check in here more frequently, to see what you're up to. And hey, BEST OF LUCK with the writing process (ah, I'm envious of you creative types!). I hope you're able to get your vision down on paper to your satisfation.

The great thing is it won't be on paper for awhile yet and is somehow so much more fluid onscreen, where it seems to flow along quite nicely.

Dandelion: I don't know what you mean by "it's not on paper", but I'd recommend you print it out with some regularity in case you have a system crash or something. The cyber-world is notoriously unreliable. Back up regularly and print out for added safety.

Just my two cents worth.

Of course once your writing is in any solid form you're obligated to save it as literary evidence, even (or especially) if it undergoes many revisions. I am not even happy that CDs are not as easily rewritable as floppies. It doesn't leave one that "out"--though losing even a rough draft would be a bit too far "out"!

How I overlooked this so far I don't know, but Ray's and Rod's mothers had the same first name! Ray's mother was Esther Moberg and Rod's was Esther Cooper. Both were immigrants from Europe, not born in the U. S., so each was among the first generation of Americans in her family. Also, Rod's father was named Samuel, the same as Ray's grandfather, brother, and official biographer. I do know Ray's parents' and grandparents' middle names, but haven't found whether Rod's parents had middle names or if so what they were--anyone know? And does anyone find it strange that Rod was born on Christmas and married a woman named Carol?

Each came from families of only boys (himself and one brother) and had families of only girls (Ray, four daughters, Rod, two daughters.) And must it not have been a kick for such male-oriented personalities as Ray and Rod to be raising Baby Boom generation daughters in 1960s Southern California? Ray's daughter, Ramona, was born in 1951; Rod's daughter, Jody, in 1952, at similar times of year, May or June. Ray's daughter, Bettina "Tina," was born in 1955, as was Rod's daughter Anne "Nan." Wonder what, if any, effect raising girls in such a hotbed place during such turbulent times had on them, or if they just let the children's mothers take care of everything?

From "Anne of the Island"--folks, I'm telling you, a cosmic work of astounding prophecy! Read this part on Monday:

"The next morning the word went from house to house that Ruby Gillis was dead. She had died in
her sleep, painlessly and calmly, and on her face was a smile -- as if, after all, death had come as a kindly friend to lead her over the threshold, instead of the grisly phantom she had dreaded."

L. M. Montgomery beat Ray, Rod Serling, AND George Clayton Johnson to the punch by writing this years before any of them were born! (But those of you who've seen "Nothing in the Dark" can guess just who I pictured as I read this!)

Hey, since scarywarhol is a fan, I am bumping up the old Rod Serling thread. There are changes to report. As I stated before, Matt's site at www.thetzsite.com was the ABSOLUTE BEST. It was chased off the internet once by legal types, and the message board underwent about 6 or 8 incarnations due to that and other changes. Each time we'd build it up bigger, better, then be back to square one.

Finally, for whatever reasons of his own, the site owner quit. Another Matthew did an excellent job of rallying the troops, who most or all ended up at a wonderful site run by another fan, Eric, which can be found here: http://www.tzworld.com/home.html

I really have to hand it to Matthew for keeping everyone in touch and up to date. As you can see, there is a (carefully moderated!--we had a few problems on another!) message board there, but I just haven't taken time to register! Just because I've been lax in this doesn't mean you-all should, and I hope you enjoy it!

The other update to report was, of course, posted, by, I believe, Sam Weller, (apologies if I'm confusing him with Patrick--it WAS someone who knows Ray directly and sees him all the time!) who pointed out some confusion. The story of Ray's in question as being "ripped off" for "The Twilight Zone" pilot was, most likely, not "Here There Be Tygers," but "The Silent Towns," which, if you read the two stories, and watch the pilot, "Where is Everybody?" makes a heck of a lot more sense, and, yes I DO have to post this over TZ way!

A notably worthwhile "Twilight Zone" message forum, not yet linked to a site, can be found here: http://www.ibforfree.com/members/index.php?mforum=twilightzonewor&

Back to Greentown's game:

I would not read FEVER DREAM to a sick, bedridden child.

Finally read "Tomorrow's Child."

I kept thinking - jeeze, Ray.

Moving this up as they're at it again: http://twilightzonewor.9.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=1698

I'm a wee bit peeved with the usually excellent search engine here for failing to bring up this thread when I typed in the word, "Esther," which appears in it at least twice, and doubtless in other threads as well, as we've had inquiries about Ray's parents' names more than once.

Resurrecting this old zombie thread for a few additions.

I think about Rod Serling a lot this time of year because his birthday is on Christmas and the SyFy channel always runs a New Year's marathon of The Twilight Zone. Sometimes the depressing Carol for Another Christmas is also seen around the holidays. At the time I started on this thread, I had not seen all episodes of The Twilight Zone, now I have.

I want to (sort of) take back one of my earlier statements, that is that Serling was not good at long prose. He did publish short story collections based on episodes of The Twilight Zone. I'll admit to having some of these books but not having read them, so can't say how the prose versions compare to the TV episodes which still stand up very well 60 or more years later. His prose may have been fine for all I know.

Also, Ray was still very alive and active when this thread was started. He was vague about the existence of an afterlife, Serling questioned one, and Ray's best friend Forrest J. Ackerman, who had good things to say about Rod Serling, outright disbelieved in one. It's my firm belief that they were all very surprised to find their consciousness continuing. I miss Nard Kordell, who was perhaps there to help them all along. I hope on some plane of existence all is forgiven and all are good friends now.

I would just like to say one other thing which really annoyed me about Ray. There aren't that many. One was his attitude towards women, another was his attitude towards Rod Serling, and a third was his attitude towards pastimes like the internet. Ray once said there were "too many internets" (doubtless not meaning more than one internet, but more than one distraction) keeping people away from important things. Well, HE could talk! He moved to Los Angeles, a large city full of some of the most creative people in existence, at the age of 13, and kept company for many years with a whole group of some of the most creative people on this earth! What understanding could he possibly have of someone sitting in Podunk, USA with no one to talk to about deep literary subjects, suddenly coming upon a forum like this?

I am deeply dismayed about the current lack of activity here. True, some members have passed away, but it can't be *that* many and it can't just be because Ray passed away! Did everyone stop reading his work the instant he died? If so, all his talk of literary immortality was for nothing! I have done everything I can to encourage activity here, and, yes, even on Facebook. I don't know if anyone will read this but just had to say it!