Yep. I have to agree with Philnic on this. It's not always about what's legal. The issue is whether or not Moore, as a fellow artist, should ignore Bradbury's interests when Moore is clearly using Bradbury's title to promote his own work in a way that violates Bradbury's wishes and conflicts with Bradbury's world view. Moore uses Bradbury's fame in a self-serving way that violates Bradbury's expressed wishes. It may not be illegal, but it is classless.

I prefer to look at it in a more positive light. I'm hoping people who have never heard of the book or read it will be sparked to do so. In my recent sci fi/fantasy unit at school I was discussing this issue with my seventh graders. The next thing I know, several of my students were reading Fahrenheit. One of them was a student who couldn't or wouldn't complete half her homework earlier in the year, so I was very pleased to see her complete the novel. One day we were having a party and I noticed her sitting by herself reading. I'm always a little concerned when a student sits alone like that during a party, even though, as a literature teacher, I love to see my students reading by their own choice. When I walked over to see what she was reading, it was Fahrenheit. I was surprised, but ecstatic. I think a little publicity, even through this controversial movie, will just get more people reading the book.

My 2�: Ray has more reason to be provoked at Michael Moore than he did for his 40+ -year-held grudge against Rod Serling. I agree, Serling may have crossed the line in some cases (MUCH more so than in the dispute with Ray, as far as plagiarism.) He may also, as George Clayton Johnson said, have made promises the network (CBS) wouldn't let him keep. He was notorious for saying what he thought people wanted to hear rather than what he believed or knew to be true. Ray is the opposite--says EXACTLY what he thinks no matter WHO likes it--and VERY RARELY changes his mind! Once he has settled on a viewpoint, he will not be dissuaded from it.

My bottom line opinion is: Several people had more reason to be upset with Serling than Ray did. Most, or all of them, forgave him when he appealed to them.

Ray had reason to be more upset with people who ripped him off much more directly and to a much greater degree than Serling did, but reserved a special dislike for Serling. Now he has directed the same dislike to Michael Moore. Perhaps in Moore's case it is somewhat more deserved. After studying the facts...that's my opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by philnic:

Bradbury fans will not confuse Moore's film with Bradbury's/Darabont's - but the general public might. And OF COURSE Ray's objection to Moore's title smacks of self-interest!

And as for Ray's titles: they are usually quoting from other authors, rather than stealing their titles.

- Phil

It's much more likely that the title similarity will encourage more people to read Ray's book and/or see the F 451 movie (wanting to know why Moore chose that title for his movie). It's more likely to HELP Ray than hurt him (unless he's a closet Republican in which case he might drop off Cheney's Xmas list :-))

So Ray's self-interest is ok but Moore's isn't? Different rules for different people?

"I Sing The Body Electric" is a direct "steal" of a title. "The Women" also (though a rather more generic phrase). He's done it more than once but wants to prevent others from doing the same. Again he's trying to have it both ways.

Like a lightning bolt through butter!

Dozens of TV stations across the US today are reporting on RB's interview in that Swedish newspaper. Here's just one of the news releases:
http://www.kfoxtv.com/entertainment/3390666/detail.html



[This message has been edited by Green Shadow (edited 06-07-2004).]

Well,
I also agree with the idea that by naming the movie after FH, Moore will lead people towards the original book. While discussing the Moore movie witht a friend, I mentioned the reason why it was so named, and thus introduced a person to Bradbury. Although this cannot be etrapolated to the general public, I do think that it might happen more often. Any publicity with FH, be it positive or negative, will (I think) turn people's attention to Bradbury.
A seperate issue is with Moore's use of the title. If Bradbury was so adamant that Moore not use it, Moore shouldn't probably use it out of respect. The claim that Bradbury used things from the Bard is not parallel to this issue - Bradbury could not ask Shakespeare's permission; Moore could have.
So yes, in this case it was not illegal - Moore has every right to use that title - but it was classless. But then again, Moore is not about class...(no, I'm not chaning my opinion about Moore; I still think he's a very engaging person who tries hard to right the wrongs he sees in America).

Cheers, Translator

Here's a clip from ''Fahrenheit 9/11''. My Imac froze -up a couple times. Very unusual. Maybe it was something in the cable system. Or, maybe it just doesn't like the title of the movie. Otherwise... good luck:
http://www.fahrenheit911.com/trailer/quicktime/large.php

Thanks Nard,
very entertaining. Please see the current discussion in Ruled Paper and tell me whether I disrespected you or not by my comment. Some people seem to think that I have.

Cheers, Translator

Perhaps Moore's movie will lead people to the original book, and that is EXACTLY what I'm afraid of. People reading it for the wrong reason can misuse it. Example: People who dislike jews have tried to turn the gospels into anti-semitic propaganda. Still more prevalent nowadays are people who hate christians claiming that the gospels really are anti-semitic propaganda. Example 2: If you read the bible with a legal dictionary, you will find an entirely different meaning for everything written in it. My point? The devil can cite scripture for his own purposes, and those looking for Moore's ideologies in a book will find them in any book they read, F451 not excepted.

And now, I will cite scripture for MY own purposes:

"Thou shalt not molest an alien..."
Exodus, 22:21

See, it's loads of fun!

Is there a seperate Mooreian philosphy that those who enjoy his movies subscribe to? Don;t you think they will see the book for what it is - a great example of a dystopian world no matter what way they came to read it?

Cheers, Translator

I just don't want people to go talking about how "the book was a total prophecy of the Bush administration." Those types of people need to get over themselves. I can't wait 'til they successfully elect Kerry or whoever and realize that he's just as bad!
I don't put my faith in politics, and believe it or not, I have never been disappointed in them! -Groon

Believe it or not, but politicians in other countries actually sometimes work for the benefit of the people who elect them...

Cheers, Translator

Moore's flimsy response to not contacting RB plus the latest link about the screening of his film in LA:

"Moore also said he intended to phone Ray Bradbury, author of Fahrenheit 451, to express his regrets over Bradbury's negative reaction to Moore's film title, which Moore explained was "an homage" to Bradbury."
http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/news/2004-06-09-fahrenheit-premiere_x.htm

Translator, you don't know how good America has it when it comes to politics until you live in other countries or have friends in other countries that understand the political system.

Thanks Green Shadow,
this should quiet everone now, shouldn't it? No more talking about ants?

Let the elephants roam.

Triped, look under some of the threads from the last 150 days or so if you want to learn where I used to live.

Cheers, Translator