purrfectgirl, Wow! Hey, you don't read scripture in depth do you!

If you did, you'd find out that:

Jesus Christ was judged by the Father as the most defiled adulturer that ever lived.
Jesus was judged the worst of all murders.
Jesus Christ was judged and condemned as the the thief of all thieves.
He was condemned for being a giant liar.
He was condemend for being a child predator.
(And that's just the beginning of the list).

Now if this is a big surprise to you, then I'd say you are NOT familiar with what happened in Christ's life. You think it's just some sort of rosy picture? Sorry. If you are interested, I'll give you ALL the scriptural references. Okay?

One of my favourite C.S. Lewis quotes from "Mere Christianity", now referred to as the trilemma:

I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: 'I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don't accept His claim to be God.' That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of thing Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on a level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.

ah, yes...I...must...accept...words...of...oler...person...as...fact. I...are...follish...imbicile. I love this!!!

Hey, I love this too!!

purrfectgirl: Hey, whatta you think about Christ being so evil? as posted above by Phil Knox?

Mr. Knox, please do give me sources of reference. I am so interested in all information that is new to me. I had a hard time staying awake in the churches I went to as a child. So, indeed, I probably did miss huge chunks of info.

My dad dragged my brother and I to ALL the different churches he could find to "enlighten" us. I liked the synagogues best because they had coffee. The most appealing were the Eastern religions.

Mr. Knox is cool. I'm here to learn. "Here" meaning planet earth....not just this message board.

purrfectgirl.
To answer that question as percisely and carefully as I can about the guilt of Christ, I need quality time in putting it all down. Am between projects, but I'll try my best to put it online later tonight.

HOWEVER, here's one, in the meantime, that may be interesting and/or disturbing. A little Bible sound-bite if you will:

Where? Why you'll find the following in the New Testament, book of Romans, Chapter 9, vs.16-19:

" vs16: Receiving God's promise is NOT up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses. vs17: God told Pharaoh in Egypt, 'You were born for only one purpose, so that I would harden your heart and my power would be displayed in you, so that my fame would be spread throughout the earth.' vs18: So you see, God shows mercy to some just because he wants to, and he also chooses to make some people refuse to listen. vs19: Well, then, you might say, 'Why does blame God people for not listening? Haven't they simply done what he made them do?' "

(Talking about Pharoah, you'll find some of Pharoah's thinking that he was in control, but he was in the control of God, in these verses in the Old Testament. For starters:
Exodus 7, vs 3
Exodus 10, vs 1
Exodus 10, vs 20 and vs 27
Exodus 14, vs 24


Talk later.

If God is in your heart, you recognize Him in the lives of others, and you are truly and humbly blessed. Have you see him lately?

to fjp451: Again...no. I can't find it in me to believe in invisible magical things. I'm more of a fact, not faith type. However....That is most assuredly not to say I'm not a loving person. I have a love in me born of knowledge of myself and others (including animals and plants) that fills me always. I guess that comes from an insatiable need to learn as much as I can about as many things as I can. It really drives me. I find it difficult to throttle back on the love I want to share with others (again, animals and plants included). My usual first inclination upon meeting people is to give them a big smile and hug. Most people are so full of fear that I feel very protective of them instantly. This from a "godless heathen"? You bet. I always smile upon meeting someone, but the hugs are only there if I know the person won't freak out over it. We're all stardust, honey.

to Mr. Phil...
So far, I've heard that God created us with the idea that we have free choice. And then I hear that the choice is predetermined. So that's not really free choice. And the hubris of anyone saying, "You were born so I could use you as a tool to show people what a great and powerful guy I am" is just appalling. This is not anyone I could even remotely respect. What kind of campaign from hell is that? This is not a loving god. This is more cold and hateful than any higher power should ever be. Shouldn't we show love and good by example rather than threat? I feel so bad that there are people living in fear of their god and doing abhorent things because their god told them to. That's just not conducive to the well-being of life here on earth.

I'm ready for my spanking now...but I'll have to charge you extra

Hey purr, I wish you could change your personal quote. It's a touch callous not to mention nauseating. Try something less abrasive like, "I want to cut up Barney the dinosaur and make purple minced meat out of him/her and then feast on the carcass and drink grape blood."

Thou art god...

to rocket: Agreed and done! I was getting sick of it myself. I thought it was funny when I first read it. It's a quote from Denis Diderot, a French philosopher who lived in the 1700s. Love those wacky French philosophers.

I have to put my two cents worth in here until Phil Knox elaborates on his difficult passages. In fact, if I rememebr, that Pharoah one is amongst the toughest passages in scripture.
The one of Christ is simpler.

But here's my quick two cents worth:
Unless you understand yourself as a "sinner" (Don't freak-out, that's just a Greek or Hebrew word that word "sinner (can't recall which one) but it literally means "missing the target with a bow and arrow". Practically speaking, it means we are essentially broken and unable to hit the target. In a broader sense, that means, for instance, you can't live forever because we have mortal bodies, you can't raise the dead because youi don't know how or have the power to do so, and you can't walk on water (unless it's frozen). If you were not a sinner, you could do all of those things. No problem. Now remember. I am giving you very very broad strokes of the brush. "Sinner" means a lot more.

A quick example of predetermined things is best described (quickly... don't forget, sometimes it takes lengthy studies to determine a proper understanding of some of these passage in context). ..but a quickie one would be...like this: Imagine a whole bunch of people on a ship going acorss the ocean to a particular port. Now everybody has the freedom to act in anyway they want. They have a choice. They are free and practicing free will. But that ship is on a predetermined course. And you're going to a particular port, like or it or not. It's something ...I said 'something"...like that...in life...

quote:

Again...no. I can't find it in me to believe in invisible magical things.

NO! ~ Too bad! By no means am I talking about magic.

"We're all stardust, honey." How sweet of you!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: fjp451,

oh....welcome to the board purr! you do come across as someone with high intellect. it's already spurred a lively debate. now it's time, baby, to soak my tired dogs. i look forward to seeing more of you on the board, maybe i'll see you in the panic room sometime ...