I noticed something, just recently, that is somewhat unnerving, and strange. Compared side by side, certain passages from Bradbury's writings have a very similiar effect on me...as reading Scripture. The experience of the involvement of the Holy spirit, who discerns for me, imparts God's word for me, is very like reading the passages in Ray's works that bring awe and mystification.
How can that be? Hmmm?!!

Are you trying to open a can of worms? We're not going to look at a debate on the literal nature of scripture, now, are we? :-)

For me, I think part of it is the power of poetry and symbol in language. Bradbury writes in a very poetic/symbolic style. Interestingly, the KJV is almost at it's 400th anniversary and there are getting to be a lot of books and articles on it's impact on the language in western cultural history. Much of this is very interesting. It is interesting that reading the KJV actually "feels" more spiritual to me than does reading any of the other translations -- even if they are more "accurate" and modern. There is a power in the language in the KJV.

I am constantly amazed that the beauty of language "feels" like what I think the "Spirit" of God feels like. I think part of Bradbury's power is that his "voice" creates a spiritual feel, and resonates to a spiritual core within us.

Overall for the most part, Bradbury's work has a far better effect on me than does scripture. Except for a few favorite passages, most of the Bible tends to depress me. I guess Bradbury's work is more optimistic and open to possibilities. Even in some of the darker, scarier stories, at least you get the feeling that these terrible things are happening not because of "the will of God," which he deals with very little if at all, but because a lot of forces are at work in this universe and people must choose how best to process their own actions and their reactions to the workings of fate. I mean, even "Banshee," about doomed spirits and revenge, depicts ultimate justice. Didn't both the inhumane director and the inhuman Banshee choose the behavior leading to their respective fates? Bradbury has for the most part embraced an optimistic view of positive change, sort of like the Robert Kennedy quote about dreaming of things which never were and saying, "Why not?"

Mr. Dark:

Didn't get your drift in the beginning. Had no intention to start dissecting scripture. My comment... is something building up in the last few years, that made me suddenly mention.
Dandelion mentioned a depressing nature of scripture. 'WIthout' the Holy Spirit...you do have depressing words and passages in many instances in Scripture. Because the insight is GONE!
The first part of Ephesians 1, to me, is beyond the incredible. I have spent months and months to come to a beginning understanding on the first 15 verses. BUT... here is one instance I find certain Bradbury passages creating a somewhat similiar experience. Words so packed with meaning they explode inside your head and heart and you are literally "changed."


[This message has been edited by Nard Kordell (edited 07-16-2003).]

Nard:

I put the :-) at the end of my comment indicating I was kidding. Sorry about the confusing (although it isn't like the board has never gotten into a debate on the nature of scripture in the past).

I think the scriptures have both negative and positive in them. I think that is another thing I like about Bradbury, also; is that his writing includes characters like Mr. Dark and others like Mr. Halloway. There is good and evil in life and Bradbury (and the Bible) honestly address both.

I know that one of the things that turned me on to Bradbury back in HS was the sense of a religious sensibility I got from his writing (especially in portions of Martian Chronicles). In that respect, I also see similarities to reading scripture.

For me, though, a lot of that sense comes from the sheer beauty of the language and the strength of the imagery.

I just received a copy on CD ROM of the talk that Ray gave at the Santa Barbara Writer's Conference this year. I laughed and cried at times throughout the talk, wherein he tells of his start in the writing business and how one must love what one does, etc. Ray mentioned that he loved John Steinbeck for "The Grapes of Wrath" and that Steinbeck's son was in the audience. Now, I love John Steinbeck for "East of Eden" becasue I have the same last name as the protagonist in the story and I own a signed first edition of the book. The remarkable segment in Ray's talk this time for me was when Ray was talking about the universe and how it extends for 10 billion lightyears in that direction and another ten billion lightyears in the opposite direction. The comment was why are we here? He said: because the creator needed someone to see his creation, or words to that effect. That is the anthromorphic principle stated in the most religious terms I have ever heard, with a few God Damn-its thrown it to emphasis the passion. Want to see the face of God? Look at the universe. No one who has done so can doubt that Man is but an insignificant part of an incomprehensible whole, except Ray, who tells us why we are here. So that the creator can have witnesses. So witness and celebrate!

Can you tell us where you ordered the cd-rom from? It sounds like something I'd love to order!!

patrask:

Wow!
Hoped to get to Santa Barbara for the conference. Used to go to those faithfully years back. Was then held at the Miramar Hotel in Monticeto. Now, I heard, because they are widening the 101 freeway, that magnificent little- cottages- across -the -land-hotel, was destroyed....

Yes, oh yes...have heard Ray describe that particular reason why we are here. It was moving back then. Perhaps it is a tiny glint on the multifaceted gem of why we are actually here. Ray has a way to make us think of things differently. Here's one I came up with, surely influenced by Ray's magical mind....

Take time, sometime, to stand outside on some very dark evening ...and get lost in the sky...and its billions and billions of stars and worlds. Wonder and dream...
(If you were way out in the desert, and stared at the great Milky Way, that alone would be a magnificent event).
But then think...'What would it look like on one of the worlds that are way out there, way way way out there...just what would it look like?'

Well, guess what?
I could show you quite plainly what one of them looks like. With the immensity of the universe firmly held in your mind, and the sense of the great vast sea of stars and planets, why, look, here's one now. And lower your eyes down....and upon the scene right before you... with the trees, or the cities, or the lights on some distant hilll, or the ocean in the far distance, or the wind blowing and the feel of heat or coolness on the skin, or a dog barking far or near. You see, here is what one of them looks like. We live on one. Pressed against the background of the billions of stars, the thought of what else in God's name is out there will thrill the heart....

quote:

Originally posted by lmskipper:
Can you tell us where you ordered the cd-rom from? It sounds like something I'd love to order!!

I purchased this from someone on Ebay. If you send me an email with your address I will try and send you a copy of the CD ROM.
me email: patrask2@cox.net

[This message has been edited by patrask (edited 07-19-2003).]

Nard:

I am an amateur astronomer, who just acquired a Celestron 11" GPS telescope with CCD camera for taking pictures of the deep sky. When I get the instrument fully debugged and pictures are flowing, I will share them if you want. When I look at the emenseness of the universe and select an object, I sometimes get the feeling that the creator is looking back through the telescope. Of course the light from the object has traveled many light years and I am really seeing what was there a long time ago into the past. I sometimes wonder what I would think if the object just blinked out and disappeared. Hasn't happened yet.

From Bradbury's poem, "If man is dead, then God is Slain" (The Chapbook)

"I dreamed man into being,
He dreams Me now to stay --
Twin mirror selves of seeing.
We live Forever's Day.
If Man should die I'd blindly
Rebirth that Beast again;
I cannot live without him.
Man dead? Then God is slain!
My universe needs seeing,
That's Man's eternal task . . ."

Mr. Dark
(per the above quoted Bradbury poem)...

Ephesians 1, reads (in a paraphrase)... "We are found in all that is Christ, because God chose this to be...We are not outside of the beloved, thereby always a pleasure before God. And God did this, before the foundation the world.. so he would manifest the splendour of that grace by which he has taken us into his favour in the person of his beloved Son..."

That poem you mentioned always is a litle sandpapery to my senses....about Man being the saviour of God. (That was another poem, too). The theology is not correct, but it always 'sooounnds' so good...
Ray mentioned this about Gerard Manley Hopkins, one of his favorite poets. He said, in so many words...'I don't know what the heck he's talking about, but it 'sounds' good...'

I think that is one of the fascinating things about Bradbury's writing. As some of us go through Dandelion Wine again this month, I am so impressed with his poetic use of language and symbol in his writing. I think my appreciation for him as a writer has increased with this re-reading because I see his power with words. I can tell a story about growing up, but Bradbury's telling includes this amazing poetic use of the language and a use of symbols and metaphors that universalize his ideas.

This ability to make the written word carry "sound" (as you say, it "sounds so good), is one of Bradbury's gifts.

Plenty of people could probably evoke an era, but to draw a plot from a fictionalized version of life is a gift, and to make it interesting enough to be read and loved universally is genius. James Herriot possessed a gift such as few others do, in being able to write a fictionalized version of life so realistic he makes one believe it really happened that way. Bradbury's vision borders the surreal even in describing fairly realistic events.

Wanted to clearify (if need be) the above post of mine... which had to do with Ray's comment that... "If Man is Dead, God is slain.".
That's why I mentioned Ephesians 1... which says, that ...God initiated Man's creation. Otherwise, we have the old saying... 'God made man in His image, and Man decided to return the favor...'

What does Ray do for me? Well, he is a permanent fixture in my blood for starters...