Mr. Moore said the inspiration for using the F911 actually came from an e-mail from an individual after the WTC attack. That person used the term and it seemed fitting. I agree. I would think given the subject matter in F451, and the Freedoms we have lost in our country today, especially with the Patriot Act that you would be proud that Moore has used this title. I can't believe you are upset about this, and wondered if you were getting pressure to comment. I hope not because then F451 becomes meaningless.

Farenheit 451 was the temperature at which paper burns long before RB started writing. Perhaps U.S. law, twisted as it is, gives RB the exclusive right to use this title to describe a book or movie. As a lawyer, I doubt it. Fox failed in its petulant effort to sue Al Franken for using "fair and balanced." And Michael Moore only actually "stole" one of RB's digits -- the last "1".

It reminds me of the old SNL joke: "In a lawsuit filed today, Vanna White accused Sesame Street of stealing her letters." Perhaps RB should rush out and copyright the rest of the decimal system, and all the letters while he's at it. Then, he could ensure that the dystopia he described so chillingly in his great book, F451, never comes to pass, simply by refusing to license the use of any of his letters, so no one could ever write another book, nor, therefore, burn one either.

Maybe it's really a deeper protection for expressive freedom that underlies RB's seemingly shallow complaint to Michael Moore than we realize, and as a true champion of challenging ideas, he just can't bear to see another artist censored, so he would prefer to horde all ideas -- and numbers and letters -- for himself.

Ugggh. Read the post. This is not about legalities -- it's about decency and honoring a great author's wishes.

It's true the post wasn't about legality, but I was wondering how I would feel if Mr. Bradbury had legal recourse and took it instead of just letting the title stand.

It seems to me that Michael Moore and F9/11 will not be hurt by this latest media blitz about MM's film -- nor will the latest film version of F451 suffer. It's all good in the long run and my guess is that there will be a well-publicized reconcilation between Mr. Moore and Mr. Bradbury which will benefit both.

Ray Bradbury is way, way out of line to demand an apology from Michael Moore because Mr. Moore entitled his book "Farenheit 9/11." If Mr. Bradbury's logic for his complaint is correct, then the Edgar Rice Burroughs family can sue Mr. Bradbury for his "Martian Chronicles." Maybe they are a takeoff of Mr. Burroughs' "Martian Tales."

If someone writes a book, "Fire Down Below," and I subsequently write a book, "Fire Up Above," then Mr. Bradbury's logic dictates that I be sued for my title.

All of it is ridiculous, and this whole argument should be beneath Mr. Bradbury's dignity.

Again, another false argument on this subject. Bradbury has never threatened a law suit. Argue what is real.

For those who defend Mr. Bradbury's pathetically public complaints on non-legal grounds, I ask: do we consult the author when we read his work? Do we tiptoe around every word we have learned (because surely the words we use in everyday speech are not solely our own) for the sake of the (presumed) inventor's intentions? Such would be a sad disabling of human language.

I think that whether or not he's out of line to request an apology may have something to do with how you perceive the film itself. There are many reasonable and fair people (arguably who believe that this is a film of propoganda, or one that uses truths to ackomplish the bigger idea/point, which is a lie.
Indeed also that the more this lie is propogated than the more freedom is lost and the more people are hurt and killed in this life. It's so ironic all this! Just like Farenheit 451, and it's really happening in ways, I know. Yet in my view Moore is encouraging the opression of free thought by propogating lies and distortions of reality. Anyway, for goodness sakes imagine the impostion on human freedom if fundumental Islam really did conquer the western world? Book burning would be the least of it. It really is a nightmarish situation all around, and if truth is the first casulty of war, than honesty is the first hope for peace. Moore is not honest, and that's what matters.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Uggh:
Farenheit 451 was the temperature at which paper burns long before RB started writing. Perhaps U.S. law, twisted as it is, gives RB the exclusive right to use this title to describe a book or movie. As a lawyer, I doubt it. Fox failed in its petulant effort to sue Al Franken for using "fair and balanced." And Michael Moore only actually "stole" one of RB's digits -- the last "1".

It reminds me of the old SNL joke: "In a lawsuit filed today, Vanna White accused Sesame Street of stealing her letters." Perhaps RB should rush out and copyright the rest of the decimal system, and all the letters while he's at it. Then, he could ensure that the dystopia he described so chillingly in his great book, F451, never comes to pass, simply by refusing to license the use of any of his letters, so no one could ever write another book, nor, therefore, burn one either.

Maybe it's really a deeper protection for expressive freedom that underlies RB's seemingly shallow complaint to Michael Moore than we realize, and as a true champion of challenging ideas, he just can't bear to see another artist censored, so he would prefer to horde all ideas -- and numbers and letters -- for himself.[/QUOTE

It is not just the first part of the title Moore stole. If you read the subtitles you will realize that he blatantly ripped Bradbury off.

"fahrenheit 9/11: The temperature where freedom burns."

"Fahrenheit 451: The Temperature at which paper burns." *edit* LMAO... I just noticed that I typed pizza instead of paper... Well, I guess that means it's time to eat.

btw. Passions, this topic is exhausted. Dead. You're not the first Moore fan to come in here and start this same thread. Read some of the other ones. Everything has been discussed throughout the 12 or so threads about this same subject.

[This message has been edited by John Galt (edited 08-02-2004).]

[This message has been edited by John Galt (edited 08-02-2004).]

From my 8 year old son upon reading the title "Fahrenheit 9/11" on the marquee of a local theater playing the BIG$$$$$$$$$$ making flick by MM:

(Unsolicited)
"That's not right! It should be 4-5-1."

I explained briefly about the background of what had happened in the use of the title (without politics or bias - given his age).

His response: "He should not have stolen Mr. Bradbury's title. He could have called him to at least ask before using it."

This moment really said much more than those who vehemently defended MM's "rights" to use it since there was no legal requirement to ask or consider ethics.

That's beautiful. Words of wisdom spoken by an 8-year old . . . Here's hoping he'll never lose that sense of logic. Keep him away from the God Squad lunatics as long as possible!

Wow. Apparently this kid has a better understanding of ethics than MM.

btw... I also have to give you props on having exposed him to Bradbury at such a young age.

Gothic: Although I believe (indeterminately, certainly) in a god, I am not a "God Squad" member. What's with the prejudice/bigotry against conservative religious people? Why not just stick to the subject?

Mr. Dark.
It is impossible to reason with a couple of the above people. You will exhaust yourself, maybe even wind-up being upset. Most likely it will end up that you will get absolutely nowhere. They are fixatated on themselves! It's their nature. You cannot reason with people like that.

It is a shame that it is these people that have brought this website into disrepair, and they don't care! They are convinced that we are wrong. You will not change their mind. If I were dandelion, censorship no censorship, I would obliterate them from this site. Then maybe more appreciative people would come on board. If Ray Bradbury knew the goings on here, he wouldn't stand for it. He'd probably tell them where to park their carcass in no uncertain words, and it wouldn't be here!


[This message has been edited by libRArY (edited 08-13-2004).]