Well, me too. I rarely read less than 2 or 3 books at a time; not simultaneously of course; usually one at night, one at some other time of day...

Ya know, these guys flipflop. Forrest J. Ackerman calls himself a "born-again atheist" and says he believes that when his physical functions cease, so will his consciousness. I have him on tape saying this. Yet at Maggie Bradbury's funeral he said she was watching over Ray from another place. So immortality applies to some of the people some of the time?

But you know that is true, when the bodily functions cease, there is no consciouness. In fact the Bible says that the dead are conscious of nothing.

biplane. I don't recall reading that in the Bible. I recall where it talks about judgment at the moment of death. I think the Jehovah Witnesses lean in that direction. I can't say I know the Mormon's take on that.

Biplane: I would be interested in the reference so I can check context. I doubt it is as simple as it sounds in your post. For Plato, there is never a moment when the soul doesn't or hasn't existed. In that, he disagrees with much of orthodox Christianity--which posits/asserts an ex-nihilo creation (the creation of the cosmos and man from nothing). The mormon view, in some ways, appears to be more closely aligned with Platos view--that the soul is eternal, and that there is never a time when it does not exist.

Dandelion is right to point out the inconsistent positions that appear to be taken. One of Bradbury's strengths is that he writes so often in metaphor. The strength of that, obviously, is that it allows the story to be read/interpreted in a lot of different ways. That is also, ironically, the problem with it. It is very difficult to nail down Bradbury's positions on some of these things. I just completed "Conversations With Ray Bradbury" (a great read), and he doesn't really worry about consistency. the definition of what he believes (or how he presents those beliefs in his writing) requires a pretty extensive reading of interviews, poetry and stories.

Mr. Dark, I feel bad that I didn't have the proper source but I will research it and post it. Library is quite right in his thoughts. But judgement does not come until the end of the millenium, or thousand years that the devil and his demons are abysed.

As for Ray and his thoughts it was interesting to hear Ray expound on various points, points that he has covered in several of his writings (Zen and the Art of Writing, Conversations to name two). Sam did an excllent job of using prompting questions in regard to the idea(s) behind F451 so that the audience fully got the picture as to how F451 came about.

biplane: Don't feel bad. I just would be interested in seeing the context. My own view is that it may be talking about a certain sense in which the dead are not conscious of things, but I can only wildly speculate until I know where that is. (It is possible, of course, that I will find the source, and then continue to wildly speculate!)

biplane.
JOHN 6, vs 28
Don't be surprised. Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God's Son, and they will rise again. Those to eternal life, and those to judgment.

HEBREW 9, vs 27
It is destined that each person dies only once and after that comes judgment.

GALATIANS 6, vs 8
Those who live to please the Spirit will harvest
life beyond the grave, everlasting life. Those who live to satisfy their sinful desires will harvest the consequences of death.

Thumbing thru various interviews with Ray Bradbury it is evident he believes it all ends right here in a plot of dug soil. But the influence of what you have done while alive lives on in others thruout times to come. Eastern mysticism!? Probably a half dozen or more pagan religions as well.

Mr. Dark and Library, the scripture that I could not think of before in regard to the dead being conscious of nothing The Holy Scriptures (According to the Masoretic Text) states at Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten."

Also The Bible In Living English (translated by Steven T. Byington) also states at Ecclesiastes 9:5 "For the living know they are to die, but the dead do not know a thing, and they no longer get any reward, because the memory of them is forgotten."

It appears that it states what it states, that when one dies, they die. Period. And although their physical body starts to decompose (dust to dust) may times that process is thwarted through modern embalming methods. Their thoughts, desires, hopes, wishes, the essence of their personality or who they are, are retained by God so that upon the resurrection that person (although in an entirely different physcial body, remember the disciples did not recognize Jesus as he was in a different physical body)will have all those things restored to him or her.

My impression was that only the 7th Day Adventists believed in "soul sleep" until the Last Judgement, but it appears several other religions do and as far as I can tell the Mormons have it both ways (conscious existence after death, but also being called forth at the resurrection.)

Hello all! Another thought at Psalm 146:4:
The Bible In Living English states: "The breath in him will go out, he will go back to the soil he came from, that day his goodwill is a total loss." and

The Holy Scriptures (According to the Masoretic Text) says it this way: "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his dust; In that very day his thoughts perish."

One further thought at Isaiah 26:14, The Bible in Living English: "Dead men do not come to life; shades do not stand up; so you have taken them in hand and rooted them out and destroyed all memory of them."

And The Holy Scriptures (According to the Masoretic Text) "The dead live not, the shades rise not; To that end hast Thou punished and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish."

Still another at Isaiah 26:14--"They are dead; they will not live. Impotent in death, they will not rise up."

So here is the thought again, in three different Bibles, but the same thought and that is: When you die, you die, when you are dead, you are dead, no afterlife, nothing until the resurrection. How plainer can it be said?

biplane. You are using Jehovah Witness texts. You must be aware that Jehovah Witnesses reject the key point of historic Christian text. The identity of who Jesus Christ is has been changed in the texts of the Jehovah Witnesses. The entire concept of eternity, life, death, is different than historic Christianity.
Ray Bradbury supposedly leans towards Unitarian beliefs. Hardly even a fascimile reflection of Christianity.

"We are surrounded about by a great cloud of witnesses..."
"Our God is the God of the living, not the dead..."
Then there's the story about Lazarus and the rich man...

We have to remember that, whatever death was, Christ conquered and transformed it for us through His death and resurrection.

Traditionally, too (as far back as you want to go), Christians pray for the departed AND ask for THEIR intercessions on our behalf.

Forgive my not citing scriptural references, but I can't take the time. I'm off with our English outlaws to the Wine Country for a few days! I'll probably not check back in with you all til Sunday...

How about the promise that this day you shall see me in paradise?

As for intercessions from the departed--some may call it "coincidence"--but I've seen way too many such "coincindences" not to believe, IT WORKS!

May I throw some more would (wood) on the fire? I think all of my fellow Bradbury fans would appreciate some history of the Christian Religion. Take a read through "The Jesus Mysteries" by Timothy Freke & Peter Gandy. I found it to be enlightening in a historical sense. I find it extremely depressing to contemplate what has been lost due to the Church stamping out any alternative views. Maybe, only now, in this age of the internet, can we begin to re-discover those losses. the victors always re-write the history, don't they?