He won with 52% of the vote--scarcely a majority. He says he wants to be inclusion and we'll have to wait and see. As Phil points out, he is not including the unborn or those who believe in the sanctity of unborn life. One of his very first acts was to reverse a ban on US funding of abortions in foreign lands. Is it really right that my taxes are funding a procedure in foreign lands that I find (with certain exceptions) appaling. It's not that he's just for it, he's using my money to fund this overseas. Is that really inclusive?

It is all well and good to speak of being inclusive, but when you're only inclusive of your ideas, that's a pretty narrow view of inclusive.

I'm not asking him, by the way, to "convert" to my view. But I do ask that he respect my opinion on a topic of this nature enough not to force me to pay for a procedure I find, at least, troubling.

So celebrate, but let's back off on the messiah-ship language and the comparisons to Lincoln--he hasn't accomplished anything yet, except to get elected. Can we wait until he does something before we put the Lincoln/FDR crown on him?

quote:

Obama is definitely against gay marriage. Why are they not picketing black churches? Or Obama?

Obama may not support full-on gay marriage, because quite frankly it would probably be political suicide to do so at this point in time in the US. However, he does support gay unions at the federal level with all the legal benefits of marriage, the repeal of the ban on gays in the military, etc. Certainly, he could not be considered anti-gay as a Republican president would likely have been.

Something that's been making the rounds that some of us will find interesting:

Ice Cream & The Election
Excellent analogy! Thought provoking.
From a teacher in the Nashville area.
Who worries about "the cow" when it is all about the "Ice Cream?
The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year.
The presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest.
I decided we would have an election for a class president.
We would choose our nominees. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote.
To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members.
We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have.
We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot.
The class had done a great job in their selections.
Both candidates were good kids. I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support. I had never seen Olivia's mother.
The day arrived when they were to make their speeches Jamie went first.
He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better place. He ended by promising to do his very best.
Everyone applauded. He sat down and Olivia came to the podium. Her speech was concise.
She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream." She sat down.
The class went wild. "Yes! Yes! We want ice cream." She surely could say more. She did not have to.
A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream? She wasn't sure.
Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it? She didn't know.
The class really didn't care. All they were thinking about was ice cream.
Jamie was forgotten.
Olivia won by a landslide.
Every time Barack Obama opened his mouth he offered ice cream and fifty-two percent of the people reacted like nine year olds. They want ice cream.
The other forty-eight percent of us know we're going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess.

quote:

But I do ask that he respect my opinion on a topic of this nature enough not to force me to pay for a procedure I find, at least, troubling.

Well, I believe that Planned Parenthood is supported by tax dollars. In other words, how is this change in foreign policy any different than what has been going on right in the US all along?

quote:

So let me ask you this: why are the gays beating up on Warren?

Well, it's rather obvious, isn't it. Warren, as head of a "mega-church," actively endorsed Proposition 8 and encouraged all his followers to contribute financially to the passage of said legislation. He also has stated that he views homosexuality as being equivalent to paedophilia and incest. Um, no surprise gay people aren't all that fond of him.

(Warren did later state that he NEVER made such a comparison---which makes him a bit of a liar, in my book.)

theoctobercountry~
Have you forgotten that Rick Warren is a Pastor? He takes a biblical viewpoint. And no, he didn't equate incest to homosexuality. I listened to the interview. The liberal media just pounced on that because he made a vulnerable comment.

I happen to personally know Rick Warren. One of the most level headed normal people you'll meet. He'll look you right in the eye and talk to you with no nonsense. He was kind enough to visit Bradbury when I asked if he'd put Ray on the prayer list.

Obama endorses Prop 8. Even the Pope. It infuriates a lot of people, certainly. As to a mega-church, he's helped build it from two families in 1980. The struggle to get to where it is today, on 125 acres in South Orange County, is a story of a whole lot of work, loss, pain and suffering. Tho Warren has made upwards of $100 million from his book writings, he's given over 90% of it away, and spent millions of dollars on aids research. And he still gives away 90+% of all he makes today.

Check out Rick Warren yourself. All his 'preaching' is LIVE on the internet stream. You can catch him on 4:30Pm and 6:30Pm today (California time)...and all four services tomorrow. He does 'em all.

Click on:

http://saddlebackfamily.com/mediacenter/services/Default.aspx

I'm not sure what you mean by "vulnerable comment." All I know is that I watched some interviews, and heard Warren say one thing, and then say the opposite afterwards; kind of contradictory.

Warren takes a Biblical viewpoint? Well, he has his own interpretation of what the Bible has to say, certainly--- many specifics of which are not shared by other Christians. Again, I have to say, just about everyone here is missing the whole point about the Proposition 8 debate. Which is nothing to do with what any individual thinks the Bible says, or doesn't say. The point is that in this country there is a separation of church and state---and why should one particular religious faction feel that it is fine to force their own beliefs on others, and write them into the law of the land?

As for Obama's views, he has said that he fully supports full legal rights at a national level for gay couples---the same rights that straight couples currently receive. A huge step forward, in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by theoctobercountry:
I'm not sure what you mean by "vulnerable comment." All I know is that I watched some interviews, and heard Warren say one thing, and then say the opposite afterwards; kind of contradictory.

As for Obama's views, he has said that he fully supports full legal rights at a national level for gay couples---the same rights that straight couples currently receive. A huge step forward, in my opinion.

octobercountry ~ Certainly you are knowledgeable in media bias thru editing and editorial perspective. The same statements are presented in one venue and turned around in another, TV or newspapers. You don't get the same news perspective on MSNBC as you do on, say CNN or Fox or certainly CBN.

Obama is not for gay marriage but civil union. Warren is accepts civil unions, but not gay marriage.

As to one particular faction feel that it is fine to force their own beliefs on other, can this be what you as well are practicing? Are you expressing or forcing your beliefs? Doesn't everyone have some sort of a belief system? You have one, I have one, my neighbor has one, the guy on the other side of the planet has one. It's when you cannot come to some sort of agreement on how to handle these different beliefs systems that the problem arises.

If you can, take 15 or 20 minutes and watch the live feed tomorrow and you will see that Warren wants to soon address all the misconceptions that are out in the media about Saddleback Church, himself, and the congregation!

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
Tho Warren has made upwards of $100 million from his book writings, he's given over 90% of it away, and spent millions of dollars on aids research. And he still gives away 90+% of all he makes today.

I would that more televangelists would follow his fine example.

quote:

Originally posted by Nard Kordell:
You don't get the same news perspective on MSNBC as you do on, say CNN or Fox or certainly CBN.

You got that right! MSNBC: pretty straightforward. CNN will do in a pinch. FoxNews? Laughable.

Of course, the issue of bias in the media depends on one's point of view, doesn't it? George Stephanapolus cried at the inaguguration. Chris Matthews (when a news anchor) said he got a tingle up his leg listening to Obama. Fox news has both sides of commentators. It does have conservative ones. But it also has liberals on there. As to media bias, the press was almost disinterested in Obama's past drug use (way past inhaling), his associations, his very liberal voting record, and his lack of ANY executive experience. Addionally, in most surveys, 90% of the reporters and editors in the media are registered Democrats. It is possible they are reporting objectively, but you have to judge things by their fruits.

Interesingly, a friend of mine pulled headlines from Bush's inauguration and posted them next to headlines from Obama's inauguration. It was disgusting. Bush's was $40 million and the headlines ripped Bush: "Bush inauguration party 40 million while troops fight in Iraq". On Obama's: "Obama shows nation how to celebrate with 120 million dollar national party." (This, while we're in a recession!)

No bias? Please!

quote:

Originally posted by Mr. Dark:
Chris Matthews (when a news anchor) said he got a tingle up his leg listening to Obama.

Well, even news anchors can get a tingle now and then, I suppose.

Or perhaps he was having a slight stroke!

Mr. Dark, well said.

One mistake, though; the Obama Coronation bill was closer to 170 mil.

Now I have no problem with the money going to sound crews, clean-up crews, caterers, porta-potty suppliers, and so on.

Apart from folks booking hotels and buying tickets to the shindig itself and satellite parties, which may not even be included in the reported cost, I do have a problem with where the money comes from.

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
...the Obama Coronation bill was closer to 170 mil...

Now I should be careful using the word "coronation" - that was eight years ago! This one was an actual election.

Doug,

Do you have a date for the prom yet?