Doug Spaulding:

Unitarian? Now you've forced my hand with that post.


It's about knowing who you are in Christ!

That means "in Christ" my sin is gone, and because it is gone I can begin to "taste" what eternity is like. Christ is doing my thinking, not the sinful me in the natural. The apostle Paul in scripture always stresses the need to have the "mind" of Christ. He means that literally. With what you are able, in your personal capacity, you begin to experience thinking which is the timeless moment straight from Christ.

Sin simply means, in the least amount of words for a definition, it means..."self". Unfortunately, that self is always popping it's head back into the picture, and there is this constant all- consuming battle between self and letting go and letting God take charge. God is always in charge, actually, but it is a struggle to know it, and let go of our "self" to see and experience it.

I believe God will snap up Ray and show Himself before Ray dies. And Ray will create the masterpiece of his life. And it'll be about his struggle and his loss of faith and his experience of God re-invigoratring Him with 'grace' and continuing with Him where things got left off. About his struggles and triumph thru Christ. But all in Bradbury poetical metaphors and wonder-language. What a work it shall be!

Ray was brought up a Baptist. He's heard the Gospel. It's all been simmering there for many, many years. Ray has nothing to lose by opening the door to that floodgate of truth...except himself, and gaining it all!

patrask:
If I recall, Massey, the guy that's quoted on the opening page, rejects the devil as the ignorance of man personified. The thing is the devil probably doen't know
Gerald Massey's name. People blame a lot on the devil and it should really be blamed on their own stupidity. But scripture makes it clear that he and his followers are distinct personalities, and distinct individuals. I do a review of the video later tonight or tomorrow...

Hey, where were you at the Ray birthday Day!?

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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nard Kordell,

Nard,
I've noticed over the years that every now and then our friend Doug will give in to The Imp Of The Perverse, if you will, and see how much stuff he can stir up with a few comments...

Many questioning scholars have sought truth in the Christian religion for many years. Gerrald Massey was such a man, who, when the information began to come out about the Eygptian religion in the late 1800's, saw, as many others had also seen, that much of what is claimed to be original in the New Testament is a repackaging of much of the Egyptian religion from the Book of the Dead, etc. Even Howard Carter, upon entering the tomb of Tutakamen saw the "light" in the paintings on the wall of the tomb of what appears to be a Trinity, and remarked that it would be awhile before that fact would sink in and adjust the current thinking of the believers.

I have read Massey's Egypt the Light of the World. It is difficult to read and will likely bother many who are convinced that the Bible is truth as written by God, etc. It was all there many years before the birthday of Jesus. The story has been presented to us by an imperial power, the Roman State, as an accommodation and amalgamation of several religions, known at the time, to firmly establish one state, one religion for the purpose of cementing power over the people. A state that can do that, can do other more nefarious things, such as murder, torture, and elimination of those who believe other than the official canon, such as the Cathars. Might makes right, he who holds the Gold makes the rules.

Would that it were not so, and that there was an ultimate referee in this game of life. My simple-minded Child mind so wants that to be true. The reality is that chaos is the real state of affairs and change is all that is constant. The game continues, the players change, only those with eyes to see and ears to hear can know the truth. But, it is so painful to learn. So much easier to just play along and be happy. Sounds a lot like Fahrenheit 451 doesn't it?

So, how many of you have taken the time to watch the Zeitgeist movie? Comments? Does it not stir some questions in your otherwise complacent thinking about what has been/is really going on here?

Advice: turn OFF the media, READ more and QUESTION everything, critially. Become more educated. Today's children know who Brittany Spears is and all the words to the songs, but not the critical thinkers of the past, like Jefferson, Paine, Franklin, and the words of our Founding Fathers. They that are running this game would like to keep it that way. No Child Left Behind will ensure that there will be no outstanding questioners who can light the way for the rest of us. They want us to just follow the piper and be happy.

These renegade thinkers, like patrask, believe we should all consider his beliefs in the absurd. And expect, likely, we're all going to somehow find something we never discovered before. And consider strong embracings. Unfortunately, many, like myself, have gone thru life in that world of the absurd. The reality of Jesus Christ is the opposite. Reality! And reality is unknown to the unsaved. Scripture even mentions it, that it's just plain foolishness to those who are perishing. I don't know what anyone could add to that.

C.s. Lewis had twice the brains, was twice the atheist, was twice as inquisitive, worked twice as hard to disprove Christianity as most oif these blokes (including your boy Massey); and became twice the Christan as most modern believers. Ever read any of his stuff?

quote:

Originally posted by Braling II:
and see how much stuff he can stir up with a few comments...

It keeps the food from sticking to the bottom of the pot!

quote:

Originally posted by patrask:
So, how many of you have taken the time to watch the Zeitgeist movie? Comments?

I knew that Bush family was up to no good!

quote:

Originally posted by embroiderer:
These renegade thinkers...

Renegade thinkers have kept truth alive for many a millenia!

Question everything!

When you think inside the box, you become boxed in.

Braling II, Yes, few want to consider the struggles of C.S. Lewis. Obviously they'll feel like they're boxed in. Everything can be mellow and smooth and quiet, as long as one tries to get along with everyone. Bring in the Gospel, tell someone they are a sinner, tell someone Christ took your place in judgment and went thru a life pre-planned to obliterate your wrong doings and accepting his life to make yourself right. Well, do this, and you are in for a long battle. Many of these characters exposing new discoveries (which are nothing new) simply just want to get along.

PHIL (patrask)!

Really enjoy the beginning of the video, 'Zeitgeist'. It's inventive and humorous. I didn't realize it's about 2 hours in length. So I only got thru about 25 minutes of it. Will have to come back to it in a day or two and finish it up.

However, this thing about Jesus being born on December 25th, with all the astrological and cosmological references to the stars in position at that time, is problematic. Few theologians accept December 25th. Hardly any. Most have always figured out that the shepherds on hillsides attending their flock do not do that in December, when there is no grass for the flock and it's 'Brrrr' COLD! Sometime in late Summer has been often suggested as the time Christ was born. September? (Thank the Roman Catholic Church for December 25th?)

Also, the Kings visited the Christ child described in scripture as living in a house, not a stable. They visited the Christ as a 2 year old? Herod was set to kill any child under 2, at least. You also have to track it back and see how all those animals and shepherds with the Kings wound-up all together at the same time in the stable under the Christmas tree. It ain't so in scripture. It never says that the Kings visited Jesus in the stable. It says they visited Him in a house. Tho it says the Shepherds visited Christ in the stable.

Also note that Herod had to ask the Kings about the star, as if he hadn't known about it. If it were so bright, others should have seen it. And the star never stopped over the stable, as noted in Christmas cards. It stopped over the house only.

Also, the number of Kings is never mentioned. They could be 3, since 3 different types of gifts were mentioned. But then, other Kings may have had those same type of gifts. Could there have been more than 3 Kings? (Note: Kings also known as Magi, and astrologers.)

(The scriptural paragraphs on this are in: Matthew 2.)

Will finish the video and make my final comments on it then. But I found it, at least in the beginning, lively and entertaining.


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This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nard Kordell,

Stop being so self rightous and mind your own salvation, judge not lest ye be judged. I don't know Mr. Bradbury's views on religion and I don't have to. I know my own and I cannot be %100 certain they are right but I am not gonna let you change them because you think you have it all figured out and you can't be wrong.
It is my belief that Jesus Christ is a representation of the Sun that warms our planet. It is not unlike our parenting civilizations on all continents to create stories that personify inanimate objects to teach a moral or influence behaviours. Does that mean that I don't believe in a creator? No. It just means I don't believe that some people a few thousand years ago knew more about it than we do. The image of Jesus Christ was needed to help maintain order and strive toward improved civility, and also to create health standards. My fear is for all those peole out there who shout damnation at those who do not walk hand in hand with their own faith for it is uncertain what the actual father of all you know to exist will do when your life is over.

soooooo....
Has anyone actually watched the movie from end to end? I promise you an interesting ride and some questioning that just might surprise you.


http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

Nice segue there patrask. I haven't seen it but my interest is peaked.

Hey Thedogman!

Not being self righteous, man!

Just relating to you what's in scripture ... what even you yourself can read over! If you want to rip out the paragraphs and pages of scripture to suit your own personal righteous needs, that's your own perogative. Thomas Jefferson did that. And created his own version without all those nasty passages that offended him. You can find one in an old bookstore. Its aptly titled, "The Jefferson Bible."

Personally, I'm a desperate sinner in need of God's grace, and willing to learn from his word what it takes. You love your sin and wish to see thru the prism of your sin?Well, that's your decision. You see, I've been there, done that! Without getting your hackles up in a roar, hear what I'm saying: Let me say it again: I've been there ....and done that ....and so I recall my stupidity where I excelled most widely in being self-righteous. Nowadays, I beg God thru failure and mishaps to lend me a bit of grace to stand up and see that I am absolutely worthless without HIM! Too bad it has taken me so many years. It would certainly have been nicer to come to even some small scrapings of this knowledge when I was a wee lad.

By the way:
I've never read scripture about judging the way you describe it. Where do you find that? What you did was only relate 25% of the actual scripture passage. The last 10% of it says..." "Judgement begins in the House of God"...and the other 65% percent says..." you can judge a BELIEVER but NOT a NON-BELIEVER. " I cannot judge a person who has NOT accepted Christ. I "can" judge a person who has!! That's why it states, Judgement begins in the House of God...and it goes on to say if it is so darned hard for those in the House of God to be saved, what is there for those outside but the wrath of God. It simply means either Christ has died for you, or you must die for all of it by yourself!

patrask:
I do indeed intend to finish the movie. It's been a gosh awful week. I really need undivided attention to do the screening of this video some justice. Hopefully in the next few days. I'll give you my full report! Did you see my comments on the first 25 minutes in an earlier posting?