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For those of us who love the "collect" Bradbury, what (if any) are the ethics of collecting? In an age of digital media, the "ethics" of trading music is fairly known and even backed by law.

Out of print and used books are similar to out of print and used CDs. Laws are in place to protect the copywright of such material, however, the argument of "previously owned" and "out of print" keeps coming up.

I have found joy in hunting down uncommon and difficult-to-find Bradbury stories. These days I don't seem to spend as much energy finding these items as I did in the past.

Years ago I met a few people online who also collected these stories. We bacame friends and even met at book signings. We would photocopy stories and trade through the mail. At the time it seemed to be a good way to obtain the material. I was less interested in owning an original copy than I was in READING the story... in whatever format.

Over time I found that it was difficult to pay high prices for an item just to have it. Thank you to Don and Ray and the various publishers (Gauntlet for example) for re-releasing many of these stories! It gives us all an opportunity to enjoy them.

Today I am looking at my list of stories that I have and, surprisingly, the list of stories that I do not have appears to be glaringly bright! What is this new desire to have these stories. A quick check of abe and ebay proves that these are valuable (if you can even find them).

I suppose my question is this:

Is it ethical to trade copies of stories from out of print books and magazines? If no money is being made, is it a fair thing in our Capitalistic society to admit that trading is OK? What about the artist? Perhaps my unbound admiration for Bradbury brings up these questions. There is a reason these items have not been collected, perhaps Bradbury intends to keep it that way and would not like them being passed around.

Didn't I hear once that Harlan Ellison would tear up copies of a book he wrote when fans would bring it to him to be signed?

Of course I can't imagine Ray Bradbury doing that, but he must have thoughs on this matter.

All-in-all, I will continue to look for these stories. I love keeping spreadsheets and the completist in me will continue to desire these stories. But will I be trading in the future? Unknown. Perhaps the thoughts of other friends and fans will help me decide.

Thanks for reading my long post!
 
Posts: 201 | Location: santa clara, ca, usa | Registered: 24 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by djmonolith:
Didn't I hear once that Harlan Ellison would tear up copies of a book he wrote when fans would bring it to him to be signed?

Harlan is a funny man.


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6892 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by djmonolith:Today I am looking at my list of stories that I have and, surprisingly, the list of stories that I do not have appears to be glaringly bright!


Post your list. People here will let you know if there are any in print which you may have overlooked. Otherwise, perhaps someone can arrange something. BTW, I've known fans to get real snippy about bootlegged material while the artist who did the actual work to create the material is glad to have fans interested in obtaining it...not a legal answer, just a point of interest.
 
Posts: 7067 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't think copies of an author's work should be copied and distributed without his permission. That's a generalisation, of course. If I happened to own a text of a rare RB story that's never been collected and that isn't very good (in Ray's own opinion), and one of the well known Ray enthusiasts on this board wanted a copy, I'd probably make one and send it to them.

In a case like that, I think the overall effect is to promote the study and the canonisation of the author's work, which is ultimately good for the author's interests. The violation of copyright would in such a case be a minor concern. But even so, I'd ask the recipient to be quiet about having a copy, and not to distribute it any further.

While we're on the subject, I was surprised to find a copy of a very early Bradbury story on the internet, a few days ago. It's a very obscure item which Ray has passed over for collection many times, in fact for over 60 years, so it's a fair bet that it's not much good.

I don't see how the internet copy could be legal, but I've always been curious about the story, so of course I downloaded it. Haven't read it yet - it's "The Pendulum", by Ray and Henry Hasse.
 
Posts: 630 | Location: Cape Town, South Africa | Registered: 29 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
...Didn't I hear once that Harlan Ellison would tear up copies of a book he wrote when fans would bring it to him to be signed?...


You will hear a lot of stories about Harlan, but most of them will be untrue. He will pursue anyone who illegally posts his works online, but not necessarily to shut them down - if he can come to a financial arrangement with them, he will allow his works to appear.

I understand that Ellison also has an arrangement with his publishers whereby he receives any remaindered copies of his books, which he can then sell through his company.

All of which suggests this is a complex area. Bottom line is: these stories belong to the people who created them (or whoever they sold the rights to). THEY set the rules, and they can be as accommodating or as fickle as they choose.

I think there's a big moral difference between photocopying an out-of-print magazine story for a friend, and illegally distributing a commercially-available story on the web.


- Phil

Deputy Moderator | Visit my Bradbury website: www.bradburymedia.co.uk | Visit the Center for RB Studies: www.tinyurl.com/RBCenter
 
Posts: 5014 | Location: UK | Registered: 07 April 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Remaindered is a good word.


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6892 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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A very good word.


- Phil

Deputy Moderator | Visit my Bradbury website: www.bradburymedia.co.uk | Visit the Center for RB Studies: www.tinyurl.com/RBCenter
 
Posts: 5014 | Location: UK | Registered: 07 April 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by dandelion:


Post your list. People here will let you know if there are any in print which you may have overlooked. Otherwise, perhaps someone can arrange something.


Thanks Dandelion. The following is a list of the "uncollected" stories that I own:

And Then - The Silence
And Watch the Fountains
Candle, The
Defense Mech
Doodad
Ducker, The
Final Victim
Flight of the Good Ship Clarissa, The
Gabriel's Horn
Genie Trouble
Ghosts, The
Holiday
Hollerbochen's Dilemma
How Am I Today, Doctor?
I, Rocket
Invasion Eve
Irritated People, The
Jonah of the Jove Run
Lazarus Come Forth
Lorelei of the Red Mist
Love Contest
Luana the Living
Maiden of Jirbu, The
Massinello Pietro
Offering, The
Payment in Full
Pendulum, The
Piper,The
Promotion to Satellite
Rocket Skin
Rocket Summer
Secret, The
Silence, The
Subterfuge
Summer Day, A
Tale of the Mangledomvritch, The
They Knew What They Wanted
Tomorrow and Tomorrow
Troll, The
Undersea Guardians
Where's Lefty?


The following is a list of "uncollected" short stories that I am looking for:

About Face
Austin and Justin: the Twins of Time
Blue Flag of John Folk, The
Bullet with a Name
Death of Mr McCarthy, The
Eat, Drink and Be Wary
Gold
Great Day in the Morning
Haunted House
Her Eyes, Her Lips, Her Limbs
Hollerbochen Comes Back
How to Run a Successful Ghost Agency
It's Not the Heat, It's the Hu--
Killer, Come Back to Me!
Last Man, The
Marvels and Miracles - Pass It On!
Memento Mori
Monster Maker, The
Morgue Ship
Mummy Dust
My Interview with Jules Verne
Overkill
Pilgrimage
Remembrance
Remembrance at Gettysburg
Tale of the Terrible Typer, The
Tale of the Tortletwitch
To Make a Long Story Much, Much Shorter
Undead Die,The
We the People, Inc.
Wilber and His Germ
Year 2150 A.D., The


I have uploaded a better list (with more information) here:

Darcy's Uncollected Bradbury Spreadsheet

Please note that I used the Short Story Finder (http://home.wlv.ac.uk/~in5379/storiesDB.htm) as reference - last updated 8.14.2008.

My list also includes those short stories that were published in uncommon and expensive publications (Match to Flame, Dark Carnival, Chapbooks, etc. but are otherwise unavailable).
 
Posts: 201 | Location: santa clara, ca, usa | Registered: 24 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Loved the Ellison tirade. I don't blame him one ioda.


She stood silently looking out into the great sallow distances of sea bottom, as if recalling something, her yellow eyes soft and moist...

rocketsummer@insightbb.com
 
Posts: 1397 | Location: Louisville, KY | Registered: 08 February 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Originally posted by rocket:
Loved the Ellison tirade.

Harlan is nothing if not entertaining!


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6892 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I don't see how the internet copy could be legal, but I've always been curious about the story, so of course I downloaded it. Haven't read it yet - it's "The Pendulum", by Ray and Henry Hasse.


This has been anthologized but not collected, as have a number on djmonolith's list. Of course, some of the anthologies are rare.
 
Posts: 7067 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by djmonolith:The following is a list of "uncollected" short stories that I am looking for:

Haunted House
(anthologized in The Mammoth Book of Haunted House Stories, ed. Peter Haining, Robinson, (England) 2000)


I think some of the others were anthologized, too, but this is the only one I have written down handy.
 
Posts: 7067 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by dandelion:
quote:
Originally posted by djmonolith:The following is a list of "uncollected" short stories that I am looking for:

Haunted House
(anthologized in The Mammoth Book of Haunted House Stories, ed. Peter Haining, Robinson, (England) 2000)


I think some of the others were anthologized, too, but this is the only one I have written down handy.


Yes, you are right. Quite a few stories were anthologized - see my link for a more detailed list, including those stories that were anthologized in other collections.


Oh, and thanks to a nice co-worker who has a complete collection of Playboy Magazine from 1991 on... I got a copy of "Overkill" today!
 
Posts: 201 | Location: santa clara, ca, usa | Registered: 24 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Asolutely, some of the anthologies are rare. For example, "The Fireman" has been anthologised, but it's going to cost you. Unfortunately, financial times aren't good, else I would have ordered "Match to Flame" instead. I'd rather order We'll Always Have Paris as my next RB book - I'm sure that one will give plenty of bang for my much depleted buck.
 
Posts: 630 | Location: Cape Town, South Africa | Registered: 29 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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djmonolith:

Impressive list. I am frequently humbled when I come out here. Nice work.

Mr. Dark
 
Posts: 2767 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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