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posted
This is kind of belated, but I would like to express my condolences to all Russians here and abroad in connection with the recent terrorist tragedies in Russia.

I was glued to the internet on the day of the attack, playing a loop recording of Zombie (cranberries) and watching the clips of the events unfolding. The only other time I felt like that was while watching Shindler's List.

Cheers, Translator


Lem Reader
 
Posts: 626 | Location: Maple, Ontario, Canada | Registered: 23 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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My condolences as well. I hope that Putin and all can have this end in peace.

Not to open a can of worms, but why children? Soldier versus soldier is one thing, but killing innocent children is awful.

One of my good friends lived in Russia for almost three years. He has a few great stories, and many sad stories. I feel a lot of compassion for the Russian people. I hope they are well.
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Provo, Utah, USA | Registered: 09 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I read as this unfolded. Why do people think murdering the innocent can promote any kind of good at all? I can't imagine the sadness and anger of the Russians who have had to deal with this.
 
Posts: 1964 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This tragedy made me feel really awful and I think it is appropriate that we express our condolences here.
 
Posts: 2694 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'm also numb. Things like that just shouldn't happen. I'm sorry, I'm horrified, I'm angry, sad and ashamed that it did happen.

I didn't watch it unfold and I haven't watched a newscast for a very long time, but I do read the paper and today's had a very interesting article. This latest atrocity is proving to be "the straw that broke the camel's back". Many Muslim radio, newspaper, and television journalists are being uncommonly critical of the people who commit these kinds of acts.

One said:
"It is a certain fact that not all Muslims are terrorists, but it is equally certain, and exceptionally painful, that almost all terrorists are Muslims."

And another:
"The majority of those who manned the suicide bombings against buses, vehicles, schools, houses and buildings all over the world, were Muslim. What a pathetic record. What an abominable 'achievement'. Does this tell us anything about ourselves, our societies, and our cultures?"

And another:
"They came from our midst. They are Arabs and Muslims who pray, fast, grow beards, demand the wearing of veils and call for the defense of Islamic causes. Therefore we must all raise our voices, disown them and oppose all these crimes."

And finally:
"The time has come for Muslims to be the first to come out against those interested in abducting Islam in the same way they abducted innocent children."

Remember, a good portion of Muslims mourn with us.

[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-10-2004).]
 
Posts: 901 | Location: Sacratomato, Cauliflower | Registered: 29 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I'd read some of those same things, grasstains. It's about time the Muslim community said something; by remaining silent, they were basically condoning the actions of the terrorists. I just can't understand why people can't get along!
 
Posts: 213 | Location: New Berlin, WI, USA | Registered: 21 June 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Thank you translator for starting this thread. My deepest sympathies are with the Russian people and those who visit here during this time of loss. I hope the strength and perseverance of the Russian heart will see them through this tragedy.
 
Posts: 109 | Location: Southern Illinois | Registered: 24 April 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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The terrorists that do these abominal things are not interested in "Good Will". They are the have-nots of this world and are manned by children who have been brainwashed to believe that martyrdom is greater than living. They are taught terrible lies about the Jewish people by their leaders to provide a reason for their hatred. The ones who fund this efforts are the people I want deposed. The Saudi family rulers have consistly ignored the terrorists in their country - Bin Laudin especially - and the result is the terrorists are gaining power there. The present rulers of Syria and Iran are the major funders of the terrorist efforts. They provide the money that pays for the training camps that convert innocent children into killers of any Jewish person especially, and any infidel, regardless of age, because they are characterized as evil by the teachings of their leaders. Leaders who see themselves as champions of a corrupted religion that promises a better life in paradise in the name of Allah, than they can have in this one. That is the problem we all face today. This has come about because of the imbalance of wealth in these countries, a few have all the money and the rest have little. Hitler did the same sort of things, start with the children, indoctrinate them to hate and give them as reason to do so, then send them out to kill the evil ones. Only when the powerful in control of the money that perpetuates this kind of training of Arab children, converting them into mindless tools of their leaders, is shut off, will there be an end to this kind of ignorance and the terror it fosters. I only pray that the true believers in the peaceful life who follow the teachings of their prophet will finally arise and tell their leaders to stop funding these atrocities in the name of their religion. The silence has been deafening to date.

[This message has been edited by patrask (edited 09-10-2004).]
 
Posts: 257 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No "Concrete Mixer" approach here!
On topic: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/040913/opinion/13edit.htm


fpalumbo
 
Posts: 731 | Registered: 29 November 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Oh...

Thank you, Translator. Thanks to all of you. I shake your hands.

Damn, it seems no end for bad news. And now we have the same troubles. I remember, i also was shoked and afraid on September 11. The same disasters everywhere: they blow up houses, they kill people, they crush airplanes. Nobody trust their government. It seems that all the world goes crazy.

What to do? I don't know.

Thank you one more time.

Pavel. Russian.
 
Posts: 105 | Location: orenburg, russian federation | Registered: 05 February 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I wonder if the dissension among the Muslims will lead to some sort of 'flash point' where they enter into an internal power struggle, similar to what happened between Catholics and Protestants.

An Iraqi friend of mine told me a proverb from his homeland.

"A Beduin waited 40 years to get revenge on his enemy, after which he said, " Damn, I rushed into it!"

What took the Catholics and Protestants five hundred years or so to 'work out' could take Muslims one thousand years or more(if ever) to 'work out'.

[This message has been edited by grasstains (edited 09-10-2004).]
 
Posts: 901 | Location: Sacratomato, Cauliflower | Registered: 29 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There is getting to be a quiet backlash. It remains to be seen how much it can proliferate. Two good books out recently are:

TAKING BACK ISLAM: AMERICAN MUSLIMS RECLAIM THIER FAITH. Ed. Michael Wolf. Rodale Books and BeliefNet. 2002. ISBN 1-57954-655-2

THE PLACE OF TOLERANCE IN ISLAM. Khaled Abou El Fadl. Beacon Press, Boston. 2002. ISBN 0-8070-0229-1

Another interesting one is:

READING LOLITA IN TEHRAN: A MEMOIR IN BOOKS. Azar Nafisi. Random House, NY. 2003. ISBN 0-375-50490-7

On the question of tolerance, this passage from the Quran ought to be required reading in some of these radical mosques:

"Say, 'We believe in God, and in that which has been bestowed from on high upon us, and that which has been bestowed upon Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob and thier descendants, and that which has been vouchsafed by their Sustainer unto Moses and Jesus and all the [other] prophets; we make no distinction between any of them.' For, if one goes in search of a religion other than self-surrender unto God; it will never be accepted from him . . ."

Surah: Al Imran. 84,85.
 
Posts: 1964 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yes, if they would read their own literature and follow its precepts, it would be a better world.
 
Posts: 2694 | Location: Dayton, Washington, USA | Registered: 03 December 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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There are power struggles in the muslim world all the time - here in Canada there is some talk of allowing a Sharia-like court to resolve some domestic disputes among the muslims. Essentially, the theory goes, if both sides of a dispute agree to it, their disputes will be resolved as the Sharia would have it, but which sharia is to follow Canadian human rights, and be compatible with the Canadain judicial system. The Jews have a very similar thing in place, and now the muslims would like to have that as well. The problem is, there is a huge group of organized muslims who abhor that idea, and a are pushing the goverment not to ratify the sharia laws. This goes to show that within muslims there are opposing view points, and some are more radical than others. It also shows that not everyone complacently follows the hardliners, and many are rebelling from their ideological "enslavement" (to put it bluntly). If we take it that the very smae struggles are happening in the world at large, as I've been told by bonna fide muslims freshly emigrated to Canada, then we westerners should be careful that we don;t blame muslims as a whole for certain events, but only the hardliners within Islam. This is also why I am still adamantly against the war in Iraq - that war destroyed a secular state, and brought about the revival of muslim extremism (anyone think here that Moqtada Al Sadr would have been doing what he was doing under Hussain's iron fist?). This is also a reason why the russian-afghanistan war was so very important - the russians were fighting the Mujahadeen, who were nothing else but very hard-core muslim fundamentalists. This in turn leads to me being ticked off at certain superpowers(guess who?) at the time who supported the Mujahadeen (such as Osama Bin Laden), and who are now, and have been for a long time, employing terrorist activities after the russo-afghanistani war finished in Chechnya. Russia is in a fix - to allow a hard core muslim-ruled country next door is asking for trouble. To continue is to be open to many more such terrorist attacks. There seems to be no way out of this.

The only possible thing that could be done is to allow moderate mulims to gather enough momentum to push their extremist brothers out of the picture. That will not happen until:
1) western powers continue destroying secular muslim states, thus allowing for the creation of "freedom" happy extremists to do their deeds.
2) Western powers continue invading muslim states, and occupying them. This simply aggrevates the muslims, and makes them go to extreme measures.
3) Wester powers side with non-muslims in the Israel-Palestine conflict (muslims see that as unfair "favouring" of the Jews over muslims, and take up arms to "right the wrongs"). Coming from a jew as I am, this may seem strange, but it's true. Believe me, I've talked to many muslims about the issue, and this is how they percieve it. I sometimes tend to agree with them, and sometimes not.

Hence Russia, the US, France, and other countries in this world will not win the battle for peace until they stop thinking with their guns and actually begin dialogue with whoever is outhere to hold dialogue with. (For the Russians it's Chechnya - a lot of civilians diead in that reagion. A lot of people are angry. It'll be hard for rusiia, especially with Putin in power (he seems to be against dialogue). For the Us it's the Iraq Quagmire, the current idiotic cabinet (who was it there that came up with the idea of the "axis of Evil"? Can they say "We are going to a) scare the hell out of the evil countries by branding them as evil and threatning them with pre-emptive attacks, and b) tick them off by our arrogance"? It's also its continual siding with Israel, as, for example, with the apartheid-like wall currently being built there. For France it's the idiocy of the president, and the idiocy of the anti-religious laws currently being instituted (what better way to push someone to extremism than by disallowing religious practices?).

Anyway, I hope it all resolves itself out, and that we all live in peace. But, somehow, until the above highlighted problems are not met, I simply don;t think it will. For now, I'm refusing to have kids of my own. Why bring life into a world that seems on the brink of destruction?

Cheers, Translator


Lem Reader
 
Posts: 626 | Location: Maple, Ontario, Canada | Registered: 23 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Not engaging in a political debate, but must say I disagree with your assessment. Mass murderers seem intractable in their unwillingness to compromise, because they are not interested in the results of compromise. Freedom is the exact opposite of what they want. Dialog in an environment of mass murder is definitionally unproductive. Whether a government is secular or fanatically religious, if persons are murdered by their own government and if the basic human rights are regularly violated with impunity, the government is a force of harm in the world. The Hussein regime will not be missed -- whatever the merits of the US-led invasion.
I just had lunch with an Iraqi (Kurd) last week. The northern third of Iraq is absolutely relieved with the end of the Hussein regime. She cannot comprehend the news focus on the insurgents to the complete exclusion of any reporting on the advances in Iraqi rights and in their return to a "real" existence.

Enough said.
 
Posts: 1964 | Location: McKinney, Texas | Registered: 11 May 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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