F451... the Perfect Place?

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31 August 2004, 01:00 AM
F451... the Perfect Place?
In our journey through the American experience, we all search for a utopia, or for the ultimate and perfect place. In Fahrenheit 451, many may say that a utopia existed. Do you believe this to be true or not? Explain.

In our day and age, what would you imagine to be the perfect place or utopia?
Ali E.
31 August 2004, 05:44 PM
In my opinion, utopia does not exist, but society makes us belive that our world is "perfect". A perfect world would not have world hunger, wars, or dangerous weapons. In Ray Bradbury's book, Fahrenheit 451, he makes us believe that everyone is happy and pleased with their lives, but in reality everyone is miserable and hides it by convincing themselves that they are happy.
31 August 2004, 08:14 PM
I disagree. I think that a utopia did not exist. I think this because suicide is a common thing. I think that in a perfect place there would only be natural causes of death. There are wars going on and people don't pay attention to them. If it was a perfect place there whould be no fighting right? People are unhappy, looking for an emotional rush and thinking that the television shows are their family's. Also, in a perfect place I don't think that they would burn books. I think that books keep us going. Without them we would have trouble learning and inventing new things. However, if we didn't have books then we couldn't make weapons of mass destruction. I think that we should have books to reach an utopia. Finally, there would be no world-hunger, homeless people, or people with out jobs.
31 August 2004, 10:51 PM
I beleive that there is no such thing as utopia because people never get along ALL the time. There will always be some sort of canflict going on, some bigger than others, but a perfect place doesn't exist. Right now, there are soldiers in Iraq and we never think about what is happening unless you know someone who went to Iraq. Sometimes its on tv, but most of the war is covered up by the government. The government hides a lot of stuff to keep us from being unhappy about it. Just like awad said, society makes us beleive the world is perfect. In Fahrenheit 451, Montag realizes the world isn't perfect like he thought, and he can see how unhappy everyone else is.
31 August 2004, 11:46 PM
In the begginging of F451 they make us believe that they are living in a utopia and that everyone is happy with their lives. As the story goes on you can see that the people seem to change and they dont seem as happy. The people were also not very attatched to each other. My opinion, they were not living in a utopia but they just did not realize it at first. I do not think we are living in a utopia world today. Nothing and no one is perfect. There are many things wrong and unhappy. I would imagine a utopia to have no huge problems in it. Everyone would be happy with themselves. There wouldn't be drugs and a lot of things would be worry free. There wouldn't be world problems either.
01 September 2004, 01:18 AM
I would have to agree that the society that ray has created in F451 deffinately had some of the major quallities of a utopia. After all, everyone was equal, or at least thought they were equal. Life was not at all a challenge. Work consisted of pushing buttons and doing simple, mindless tasks. Life was all about entertainment. Now don't we all just wish life this, where we don't have to think, learn, or even work? No effort put forth in anything! Remember what a school day consisted of, mostally watching movies. Boy, don't we all love movie days. But according to others, this was in no way, shape, or form a utopia. I know that after I got to the section in the book where the old lady is burned, I did no longer look at this place the same way. I suddenly felt like I was in Germany under the power of the Natzi's. If I were in Montag's shoes, I would have felt as if I were living in a nightmare. Just think, you have no control and you have knowone who feels the same way as you. Everyone around you is brainwashed! And because there arent enough of you, there is no way you can hold a revolt. There is no way out! And when you live is a world where people are constantly dying of suicide and car crashes, I would not call that utopia, no matter ho fast they say that the bodies are "burnt up". So as much as we can look at this as a utopia, I believe this teaches us that no matter how much easier and more perfect we think we are making our lives, the system will always have some flaws. I believe this is also a point Ray was getting to, Which I can go further in depth in.
01 September 2004, 06:43 AM
Utopia is unattainable. By definition it can never exist because Utopia means "no place". It's Greek.

Perhaps the ultimate goal of achieving the Utopian dream would be the abolishment of the money system and the pseudo-slavery which keeps that system in place.

I wonder how criminals would be dealt with in Utopia?

For some, Utopia and anarchy are the same.
01 September 2004, 07:10 AM
There was no utopia in F451. There was a pseudo-utopia--in reality a totalitarian, repressed society. Then there was the only known escape from it. These do not a utopia make.
01 September 2004, 05:56 PM
I think that some sort of Utopia did exist in Fahreheit 451. Since the goverment controlled a lot of things that went on. For example if someone started to think to much or did not act like everyone else did they would just dispose of them. I think the Utopia they may refer to in Fahrenheit 451 is that it was a controlled society. They werent allowed to think and if they did it would have consequences. But, in Fahrenheit 451 the people were not truly happy they were just disquised by what the goverment said and did to hide the truth. In our day and age their is definitely not a Utopia. So many things is wrong with our society today. One thing is that their is murder and so much death. People today are kind of like the people in Fahrenheit 451. They both are disguised by school friends and t.v. Yea sure we may watch the news but to we actually think about what we just saw. Probably not we usually turn it on and watch it. Than think oh well that didn't happen to me. Then just change the channel and go on with our lives. So their is definiely not a utopia in our world today.
01 September 2004, 07:55 PM
It's obvious that a "perfect place" or "utopia" does not exist on earth, and I do not think that the town in Fahrenheit 451 was a utopia. In a perfect place EVERYONE is happy. In the beginning of the book you can tell right away that this town, where Montag lives, isn't perfect. YES--most people ARE happy, with no worries in the world, but there are also those who suffer. People were killed for reading. In a perfect place, no one would be hurt and there would be no hate. "Aren't you going to ask me about last night?" Montag said. "What about it?" "We burnt a thousand books. We burnt a woman... Mildred, how would it be if, well, maybe, I quit my job awhile?" "You want to give up everything? After all these years of working, because, one night, some woman and her books--" "You should have seen her, Millie!" "She's nothing to me; she shouldn't have had books. It was her responsibility, she should've thought of that. I HATE her. She's got you going and next thing you know we'll be out, no house, no job, nothing." "You weren't there, you didn't see..." he said. I think that in a perfect place, people would care about each other, not burden each other.
01 September 2004, 11:44 PM
Yes, I do believe that a utopia existed in Fahrenheit 451, but I do not believe that it was a great one. In the book, everyone was happy all of the time. The government had created the perfect world. No worries. No sadness. Laughter. Happiness. Although husbands were away at war, wives just thought positive like how they would be back in a week. They never thought of the dangers of injury or death. One did not have many obligations throughout the day. If one wanted, one could sit in the parlor with the �family� on in the television walls all day long. Happiness is often defined in a perfect place. But is this place really a utopia? Even though everyone was always happy, freedom of thought and imagination were taken over. A person�s thoughts were taken over such as in the train ride with �Denham�s Dentifrice�. In this way were people brainwashed. As you can see, this perfect place had many holes in it. It may look like a perfect place at first, but when one considers the freedom of the people, it does not seem that perfect anymore.
Ali E.
02 September 2004, 12:40 AM
Lisa Cazares
I don't believe that a utiopia did nor will ever exist- not in real life, nor in fictional books. If there were such a thing as utopia, life itself wouldn't be interesting, nor would books. The key to books, such as F451, is that nothing ( as in the world the author has created for us or a situation)is perfect. There is a part of inperfection, that brings curiousity to humans, which makes it much more fun and interesting to us. Is it possible that that might be one of Ray Bradbury's message to us? That there is no such thing as a perfect world but that its ok? That perfection leads to unhappines and that inperfection leads to the mystery and wonders of life and the world we live in?
In the book, the people in the city seemed to be content living their controled lives. They had no clue of anything that was happening around them. To them, the nuclear war didn't exist. And what better a world of no war but all peace? That is how people saw that perticular situation in this book. A small storm that would blow over in several days. Their outside personas were happy and enjoying everything, but their inside characters were dieing to get out and find some other point to life, other than what they had been told was perfection. For example, if Mildred were to be content, truley happy, and enjoying her life, she would have not have tried to overdose in the first part of the book. If Mildred's friend, were to be truley happy with herself, and her relationship with her husband, and her situation with her husband and the war, and her kids, she would not have started bawling when Montag read the poem to them. Ray is trying to make a so called perfect world in this book, and show us how a "utopia" is not functional, for there is no individuality, no creativness, or real social interaction. In a more personal perspective, we should think of ourselves- how would we feel if we had everything we wanted and our life was "perfect"? Most of us would get bored, and in the end be incontent and unhappy. If it wasn't for imperfection, books would be dull and boring, for everything would be-perfect. So if you ask me if i believe that there was a utopia in F451, my answer is no, for F451 wouldn't be that famous for it would be simply boring. I believe there is no such thing as perfection- and that is for the best.
03 September 2004, 01:23 AM
It really depends on what your idea of a utopia really is. To some people, this just might be watching six people forced to live together and watch their lives. To others, it would be going out each day, working hard, having fun, enjoying the outdoors, and being thankful for not having the same day twice.

In Fahrenheit 451, nobody was thinking outside the box. They just weren�t curious. They had been brainwashed by TV so much to the point of being unable to think for oneself. Eventually, this leads to suicides from their true unhappiness.

I think Clarisse asked a really great question: �Are you happy?� I know I wouldn�t be if I followed the same schedule, day in and day out. If the world was a perfect place, life would be boring. So my idea of a utopia is one where there is no utopia and we would have to figure out solutions by ourselves. I know it sounds weird, but as they say, differences in people make life interesting.

What you have to do is imagine a world where everyone is the same in every aspect. No one would be able to succeed in anything because they would not be smarter, stronger, more creative, talented, or open-minded than anyone else.
03 September 2004, 02:34 PM
I do not think that Fahrenheit 451 was a utopia. I think this because people were unhappy. They were unhappy about reading, but only some people were unhappy about that. Other people were unhappy about books. The people who hated books thought that some people were out reading them. I think this was not a utopia because people in this society were miserable.If this was a utopia people would not be miserable, they would be kind, pleasent, and loving.
07 September 2004, 10:54 AM
I think that it would not be a good place to live. You could not do any thing u want or lion to any kind of music u want. there world not be any jobs for artist or photographers. I'm glad we live in the time we do.