What Mel Gibson has 'started'.

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20 February 2004, 06:12 PM
What Mel Gibson has 'started'.

I mean this in the nicest way possible but, really, you're coming across like a drunk at a party. You just won't go away, despite the gentle urgings of the other guests at the party. Please, if you can't find some direct connection to Bradbury, take your theories elsewhere. It's really getting annoying.
20 February 2004, 08:32 PM
Tor Hershman
The Theory of God/Satan
Evidence - 0

You may "Believe" (and no doubt did - 100% total faith) in Santa.
But, no jolly tubby elf ever did, nor ever will, come down the smoke stack.
Your "Belief" is not necessary for a fact, to be a fact.

To bad too, I would REALLY dig for there to be a Santa, or Jesus, or even a Satan - there just wasn't, isn't, and won't be.

Theory of Satan

Theory of God

20 February 2004, 08:38 PM
I anxiously look forward to seeing this film. I am just sorry that so much negativity has to surround it, and it hasn't even been released as yet.

I believe Gibson to be a man of faith, and I do not believe he intended anything disrespectful or unflattering about the Jews OR the Romans.

If you believe the Gospels...Christ died at the hands of the Romans at the instigation of the Jewish Sanhedrin.

I hope when people have a chance to see it, they realize that it is a labor of love and not an attack on an ethnic or religious group.
20 February 2004, 09:03 PM
20 February 2004, 09:14 PM
Tor Hershman
Lightning strikes the Earth approximately __?__

A. 50 times a day
B. 90 times an hour
C. 4 times a minute
D. 100 times a second
E. 1/38,810,764,006,492 times a jiffy
F. Every time an all powerful being allows
a little child to starve to death, that's about two since you started reading this.

Answer: D. About 100 times a second.

3-21-04 new image added

Don't hold the holy 9 iron over your head for this shall anger the Mighty Zeus.

No, there isn't a Zeus.

[This message has been edited by TOR (edited 03-21-2004).]

20 February 2004, 09:16 PM
Nard Kordell
Well, the latest news is that Gibson's film opens to '3,500 screens'. Wow!

I've been talking to Ray about his instrumental action in my getting saved....but...unless the Holy Spirit explains it to you...you'll NEVER get it. That's the incredible, unexplainable, great mystery of Christianity. It has nothing to do with rational thought, figuring it out, trying to come up with theories, or dissect the verses of scripture to make a point, one way or another. Unless God """breathes""" Himself into you and let's 'you' see """love"", then forget it. Your lost on your sorry way.

Ray's short story, ""Death and the Maiden"" to me... is still one of the finest descriptions of Christ, of the Holy Spirit, under the guise of Willie Winchester...

...I always like that one commerical on radio and television from some banking or financial institution, where...you're on a train or sitting in a restaurant, and all these people are around you, eating, traveling to or from work, or elsewhere...who can be ENORMOUS beneficial help in regard to you!
BUT...you don't know it.
No one introduced you.
You didn't collide with a coffee cup in hand, and start a conversation.
It happens all the time.
But the Holy Spirit says, Hey...let me introduce myself to you, and let me show you what you have been reading, and let me explain it completely to you.

Reading a simple story of Ray Bradbury's like ''Death and the Maiden'', I am totally captured by one woman's agony of her loss, of her beloved. You see, that is always the discussion of why does Ray Bradbury affect the reader so completely. Ray sits in the company of angels and heavenly air...but, gosh darn it...no one has slapped him awake yet so he suddenly really '''sees'''....

How can this be? This has mystified me for years....!!
20 February 2004, 10:05 PM
James Robert Smith
Christianity is a belief system of a relatively small minority of the human race. In fact, many people who claim to be Christians do so only out of pure convenience.

I am a hard core atheist. I don't believe in anything supernatural and see only evil in any religion to which I've been exposed.

Gibson's film is a religious film. No more, no less.

I think what's got a lot of people upset is that Gibson's father is a Jew-hater. And Gibson has stated that he believes what his father believes. I predict millions will see his Jesus movie. It will make tons of money. But so did LORD OF THE RINGS. I no more believe in Jesus than I do in Gandalf. I would no more refer to The Bible for guidance than I would to FELLOWSHIP OF THE RINGS.

Is Mel Gibson a Jew-hater? Only Mel Gibson knows the answer to that. I have seen interviews with him lately, and he seems disturbingly insane.

But I don't have anyting against his film.

If he denies being a hater of Jews, then no one will ever know the truth but Mel and his father (who is definitely a racist). If I ever see the film, it will likely be on dvd, as I won't go into a theater full of religious fanatics to see a film about their particular mythology in which they believe (and which I most definitely do not).

As for The Passion/Ray Bradbury connections: Ray seems to me to be a Christian. I don't know. I do know that I've heard him say that one of his biggest influences was The King James Bible (he said this in my presence at ConFederation in 1986).
20 February 2004, 10:07 PM
Tor Hershman
How can it be?
Take biology & psychology courses with competent professors - study most diligently - get very good grades - then you would know "How."
Saying Zeus this & Odin that, is a LOT less
work than study, isn't it?

Human Conflict,
Final Report -

All Enemy Forces - 100% Fatalities
All Neutral Forces - 100% Fatalities
All Friendly Forces - 100% Fatalities

Since Human DNA invented all gods and devils humans can say whatever they want to try to convince - themselves.

I hope Nard and Ossma Bin Laudin will be in total ecstacy forever & ever & ever in Fictional Perforated Hippie Hebrew on a Stick Heaven far away from the Hallucinatory Horned Hobgoblin with a Pointy Glutes Maximus in H E double hok�y sticks.

How many animals were on Noah's Ark?


Unlike Nard, when I say this is �my last posting on the subject at this site� - I speak the FACTS.

This is my last posting on the subject at this site.

..[___]..- - -{SEE}

21 February 2004, 02:03 AM
Mr. Dark
Mr. Bradbury is, as I understand it, Unitarian. His reference to the KJV may very well constitute a declaration of faith; but I suspect it is a reference to the powerful metaphors, symbols and themes of the Bible. The KJV is widely recognized for the poetry, beauty and power of its language. (And we all know Bradbury is a master of the English language.) In much of Bradbury's poetry, he appears to be -- at best -- a non-traditional Christian. I rather suspect he's a kind of a humanist who honors and uses the metaphorical imagery and symbolism of religion to put his own truths out there. While not conventionally religious, I see nothing in his writing that disparages religion, per se. He's definitely critical of its excesses and abuse, but he uses the core themes and images in much of his own writing.

This board has traditionally tried to avoid religion-bashing; as it is disrepectful to persons who believe. The world is more complicated than it used to be, and there are many, many ways of interacting with the world to find meaning and purpose. Religion is still a significant part of that mix for many people.

Might I suggest we focus on Ray Bradbury here. If we want to espouse Egyptian mythology, tie it to the Martian Chronicles. If you want to discuss atheism, look at the dialog in Kaleidoscope. This is a very good board, and one reason for this is that it has been tolerant of others' beliefs (without hinting at any self-righteous "I'm smarter/more sophisticated than you" kind of stuff) and by focusing on Ray Bradbury.

There are lots of boards out there dedicated to Egyptology, atheism, metaphysics, etc. When those subjects are tied to Bradbury, discuss away. When people come here to preach or bash -- in furtherance of a personal agenda, they weaken the quality of the board.

Many here are very serious about Bradbury. If you want to debate non-Bradbury items ad-infinitum, feel free to quietly lurk, post the occasional question or observation; but please take some of these discussions to boards for which the topic and attitude is more relevant.

21 February 2004, 07:52 AM
Tor's last post? I pray it's so.
21 February 2004, 06:59 PM
There's nothing like a breath of fresh ass.
21 February 2004, 08:05 PM
Ought Not
James Robert Smith:

First you mention that Gibson's father is a jew-hater and that Mel Gibson believes the same as he then you don't know if Mel Gibson is a jew-hater or not. Which is it?

Personally I don't think it is anyone's business what Gibson's father believes and is in bad taste to go seek him out to tarnish his son. The man is in his mid 80's for God's sake. Leave him alone. Your athiesm shows in comments like that which lack any sense or respect.
21 February 2004, 08:29 PM
Nard Kordell
If the 'noisy commotions' in this particular TOPIC is a 'miniscule' picture of what happens in discussing Mel Gibson's new movie, should I dare think of the unfavorable undertow ''out there'' once it hits the screens? The Gospel, presented in its true message, is NOT supposed to be settling to many.... It cuts deeply into the real intents of the heart, and that can be very troubling...
21 February 2004, 09:25 PM
Ought Not
Yep, Nard. This thread is near 60 posts and just picking up speed. I've been seeing almost every show on tv discussing this movie. Saw that it is estimated to make around 200 million. And 3500 screens! Amazing! Sure there will be bad blood with any religious movie. There will be many TOR's who come out and show their mummy's and say that everyone's making a wish list for Santa and all these intelligent things. But Nard has said it best that belief is not an intellectual exercise. I think he's the first I've heard say that it is a relationship which is a remarkable statement. Tolstoy wrote an essay on religion that summed the situation up. He said basically that when he turned away from God he felt bad and when he went to Him he felt better. That is putting it simply and was the result of his long study. So his result was a feeling as an analytical summation of his studies. It does not make sense. It does not involve logic. A lot of people will always have a problem with that.
23 February 2004, 10:26 AM
Nard Kordell
Well, here it goes.
Today, Monday, is MEDIA day for the screening of "The Passion of the Christ".

'The New Yorker' has already keyed in with "....a relentless, brutal...feast..."

Get ready for a circus of events from the critics today....!!