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Let's see... what is the definition of "civil rights"...

"The rights belonging to an individual by virtue of citizenship, especially the fundamental freedoms and privileges guaranteed by the 13th and 14th Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and by subsequent acts of Congress, including civil liberties, due process, equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination."

Sorry, I think legal discrimination against gays is a violation of civil rights.
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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theoctobercountry! You're kidding, right?

If not, I have to give you an "F" for Constitutional Studies on your report card.

13th and 14th Amendments have to do with slavery. Not protecting gays.
 
Posts: 162 | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yeah, now that the Presidential race is over, Proposition 8 is the big thing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Doug Spaulding,


"Live Forever!"
 
Posts: 6909 | Location: 11 South Saint James Street, Green Town, Illinois | Registered: 02 October 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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I was referring to the bit that said "equal protection of the laws, and freedom from discrimination."
 
Posts: 232 | Location: The Land of Trees and Heroes | Registered: 10 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Yesterday on MSNBC Kieth Olbermann ended his show with an editorial that paralleled my own thoughts on the topic of prop 8 and Gay marriage on several entries on this blog. I actually cheered the guy as he ended his editorial. Way to go Kieth, a counter to the oft' viewed Bill O'Reilly positions. Here for your enjoyment is the text of Kieth's statements:


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27650743

Love is, indeed all we really need and the Golden Rule!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: patrask,
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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No use arguing with some of the people on this board about politics and religion. You have to be mighty smart and gifted to sway any of these lefties and semi-atheists.

octobercountry, no matter how you want to dice it, 13th and 14th was specifically addressing slavery, where people were kept like cattle, beaten and families torn apart. Gays are company presidents and politicians and lawyers. And as to prejudice and killings in the community, let's look at Christians who now have the largest number of killings and abductions ever. But that's not in the news. You have to go to missionary letters. Once in the while it makes news in a few lines on the 87th page of the Daily.

patrask: Golden Rule, Love? Olberman? Who are you kidding? The guy is crusted around the mouth with old foamings from his diatribe against Catholics, Baptists, and anyone else that infuriates his skewed moral agenda.
 
Posts: 162 | Registered: 04 January 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Olmbermann, O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin... these are all people nobody should be listening to.


Email: ordinis@gmail.com
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Redmond, Washington USA | Registered: 18 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Nico:
Olmbermann, O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin... these are all people nobody should be listening to.


So who do you have in mind? Ed Schultz? Air America?
 
Posts: 439 | Location: Oak Park, IL | Registered: 19 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by embroiderer:
quote:
Originally posted by Nico:
Olmbermann, O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin... these are all people nobody should be listening to.


So who do you have in mind? Ed Schultz? Air America?

Or no pundits at all!


Email: ordinis@gmail.com
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Redmond, Washington USA | Registered: 18 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Being a logophile, I chafe at words being redefined.
Marriage has always meant one thing.
 
Posts: 3167 | Location: Box in Braling I's cellar | Registered: 02 July 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Braling II:
Being a logophile, I chafe at words being redefined.
Marriage has always meant one thing.

I'm in favor not of changing the definition of marriage, but in modifying a small bit of state-recognized contract.


Email: ordinis@gmail.com
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Redmond, Washington USA | Registered: 18 April 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Nico, you are in the minority then, in the gay way of saying. The gays mean to mean "marriage, not "modify".
 
Posts: 384 | Location: Anaheim, CA. | Registered: 21 June 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Salamander:
patrask: Golden Rule, Love? Olberman? Who are you kidding? The guy is crusted around the mouth with old foamings from his diatribe against Catholics, Baptists, and anyone else that infuriates his skewed moral agenda.


Just for the record, it appears that Mr Olbermann was raised as a Unitarian, and likely shares that burden with our cherished author, Ray Bradbury. Not a big deal, it just allows me to make a tie-in here. In researching the '60s Civil Rights Movement I became aware of a little known fact. When Martin Luther King asked for Christian ministers to come to Alabama to support his non-violent cause against segregation, one of the first to so so was a minister from Boston, a Unitarian minister, who subsequntly was beaten to death by white crackers using baseball bats. Now, that is laying it on the line for the truth!

About Keith, I am just glad to see someone take a stand against what is not a moral issue, but a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, and to say so on a national stage at the risk of being hurt by the moralist Christians who would dictate their beliefs onto us all.

The biggest fallout from the Bush eight years is the total failure of the Christian Right to amend the Constitution to recognize their religion as a state sponsored and sanctioned belief system, which would have been a return to the good old days of Catholic Europe and the total control of minds through threat of heresy, witch calling, the loss of valuable history to all of us who would care to learn, imposition of their will by force and an almost total disregard for the real teachings of their Savior, love thy neighbor as thy self, which is nothing more than a restatement of the Golden Rule. This is NOT a Christian country, it was founded by those who wished to ensure that freedom from religion be given as much right in the civil arena as freedom of religion. As Mr. Olbermann so eloquently put it, I just don't get it? Why must the teachings from one book over rule the kind and reciprical treatment of other humans, who do not wish to force their beliefs on others, but only to love each other? The Omar Khayyam quote reflects my own choice. I choose the Book of Love. The quote from Omar Khayyam about drinking from each other's cup is often used in the wedding ceremony, as it was in my own. What is being drunk from that cup is love. All people should have that right.


http://www.tv.com/keith-olbermann/person/163687/biography.html
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by patrask:

Just for the record, it appears that Mr Olbermann was raised as a Unitarian, and likely shares that burden with our cherished author, Ray Bradbury.

"You know Unitarians as a whole (the modern kind, NOT the kind of our founding fathers) are religious liberals. They do not necessarily believe in anything in scripture pertaining to the Godhead, or the virgin birth, or hell, or heaven; like Bradbury, you will likely encounter forms of belief in re-incarnation, man controlling his destiny, no hell, why the Bible was written by mere men, translations broken and lost, and other non-biblical reasonings."

Not a big deal, it just allows me to make a tie-in here. In researching the '60s Civil Rights Movement I became aware of a little known fact. When Martin Luther King asked for Christian ministers to come to Alabama to support his non-violent cause against segregation, one of the first to so so was a minister from Boston, a Unitarian minister, who subsequntly was beaten to death by white crackers using baseball bats. Now, that is laying it on the line for the truth!

"Talking about the mid 1960's event, two Unitarians died, not just one. The Ku Klux Klan was involved, and when the President of the Unitarian Association spoke, he talked about something on the order of - they died in order to uphold justice. It was the justice of freeing the black man from the wretched malice of society that prevented him from even eating at the front counter of a restaurant. There were seperate phones; there were seperate drinking fountains; there were seperate washrooms; there was a black army in World war II. There were seperate baseball teams, black only baseball teams. A black entertainer as late as the 1950's, for instance, had to stay in the black section of a hotel, while his white friends stayed in another hotel. There is NO sexual discrimination here. It was about human rights.
If you wish to push this thru the courts against the votes of the people, that's what a court may finally do. This does not negate the biblical view that adultery, fornication, men laying with men and women laying with women, is morally wrong."


About Keith, I am just glad to see someone take a stand against what is not a moral issue, but a CIVIL RIGHTS issue, and to say so on a national stage at the risk of being hurt by the moralist Christians who would dictate their beliefs onto us all.

"Keith O. is wrong. This is what a falsehood looks like. His sense of the moral has been fully conflicted by his admirable sense of popular culture."


The biggest fallout from the Bush eight years is the total failure of the Christian Right to amend the Constitution to recognize their religion as a state sponsored and sanctioned belief system, which would have been a return to the good old days of Catholic Europe and the total control of minds through threat of heresy, witch calling, the loss of valuable history to all of us who would care to learn, imposition of their will by force and an almost total disregard for the real teachings of their Savior, love thy neighbor as thy self, which is nothing more than a restatement of the Golden Rule. This is NOT a Christian country, it was founded by those who wished to ensure that freedom from religion be given as much right in the civil arena as freedom of religion. As Mr. Olbermann so eloquently put it, I just don't get it? Why must the teachings from one book over rule the kind and reciprical treatment of other humans, who do not wish to force their beliefs on others, but only to love each other? The Omar Khayyam quote reflects my own choice. I choose the Book of Love. The quote from Omar Khayyam about drinking from each other's cup is often used in the wedding ceremony, as it was in my own. What is being drunk from that cup is love. All people should have that right.

"This is 88% nonsense. Sorting out what is more right on and what is futile information would cause me a stomach ache.Ouch!"


http://www.tv.com/keith-olbermann/person/163687/biography.html

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Phil Knox,



 
Posts: 624 | Location: San Francisco | Registered: 27 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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May you be happy in your certitude and live long. When your time is up, since you will be on the higher moral plain, please acknowledge my suffering for my fellow man by sending down a cool snow flake now and then. Religion is not debateable, only Civil rights are debateable. But please, do not judge harshly what you choose not to understand by casting stones of Biblical quotations at those who do not share your views. Just have them to yourself and leave others to conduct their lives in peace as well. No one is asking you to surrender anything, only to allow all of the others who do not share such views to have the same CIVIL rights as you.
 
Posts: 847 | Location: Laguna Hills, CA USA | Registered: 02 January 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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